Cuts on top of head from digging

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JessPets

Gray-bearded Member
anicole1020":drscd81t said:
destiny1998":drscd81t said:
Hi. I just want to say calcium sand is bad and can cause impaction. Please remove. Non adhesive shelf liner, paper towels or tile are easier to clean and don't harbour bacteria.

Hi, I understand where you are coming from but I was recommended by a vet that it is the most "natural sand" and safest for them where as walnut sand can hurt the digestive system and regular sand can also hurt. I clean her tank every day sometime twice and make sure to replace it as often as possible to make sure no bacteria is growing. I appreciate your concern and you looking out. Do you know of a good cheap antibiotic?

Hello, first off I hope your dragon is getting better :D

But the calcium sand really is bad for them. Once in their stomach it hardens like cement, which, as you can imagine, is not really good. Even normal play sand is better, as it is slightly easier to pass. We normally recommend non-partical substrates like the ones Destiny suggested.

Unlike what we may think, bearded dragons' natural range doesn't include much loose sand. Large rocks, hard packed dirt, and clay are what actually make up the vast majority of their habitat.

Just my 2¢
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
anicole1020":1vi3vbpj said:
kingofnobbys":1vi3vbpj said:
Poor girl .

You may not be aware of this, but under 2 years old, she is way to young to be mated and produce clutches of eggs.
I don't know why she is producing slugs if she's not been sharing with a male or had contact with one - none of my juvenile females ever have.

It's too hard on her body and system and will starve her of much needed dietary calcium and proteins which she needs for proper growth and development, she is still a juvenile at 12 months old and still has perhaps 12 months of growth in her before she is a fully mature and fully grown adult.

I can't add anything to Ellen's suggestions , I would suggest Manuka honey but if she's a digger this will quickly become an issue with sand being glued to her head / abrasions / scratches.

She isn't being mated yet, has calcium sand, calcium powder I put the mealworms in before I give them to her and Dubai roaches so I know she's getting plenty of calcium. I'm just worried about her cuts ?

The cuts are minor , I am TERRIBLY TROUBLED that she is on CALCI - SAND . That stuff MUST NEVER BE USED as a bedding/substrate for ANY LIZARD --- PERIOD !!! it's LETHAL WHEN INGESTED (accidentially stuck to greens and insects) and IT WILL KILL your beardie.

HIGHEST PRIORITY - I MEAN RIGHT NOW !! get rid of the CALCI - SAND.

I would definitely seek out a new reptile vet (who is actually competent) and ask as a matter of high urgency for xrays , as I am worried she may not actually be expecting , but severely impacted due to ingestion of CALCI - SAND , I hope I'm wrong.

Then deal with the abrasions on her snout.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
anicole1020":3bvzawbu said:
destiny1998":3bvzawbu said:
Hi. I just want to say calcium sand is bad and can cause impaction. Please remove. Non adhesive shelf liner, paper towels or tile are easier to clean and don't harbour bacteria.

Hi, I understand where you are coming from but I was recommended by a vet that it is the most "natural sand" and safest for them where as walnut sand can hurt the digestive system and regular sand can also hurt.
<<< Sorry but if that is what your vet told you, sack him . He's an imbeccile and clueless if he suggests CALCI - SAND for a bearded dragon's bedding.


I clean her tank every day sometime twice and make sure to replace it as often as possible to make sure no bacteria is growing. I appreciate your concern and you looking out. Do you know of a good cheap antibiotic?

<<< F10 is about as good as you can buy anywhere , worth getting both F10sc and F10 germicidal barrier ointment (ointment to use on the cuts) .
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Anicole, I just re-read the post where you mentioned her digging under the water bowl. It might be what is causing the wounds since it's pretty rough + heavy. Make her a dig box like this, she can dig in there for hours and will feel more like she has privacy and be more inclined to lay her eggs.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30026/full

It's a large plastic storage container, about 22 " long by 12" wide by 8" high with a hole cut in the lid. If you take out the big water bowl and put in a digbox like this it will probably help her. You can put the other little log or cave next to it so she can get up in it.
 

anicole1020

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":32xydzeg said:
anicole1020":32xydzeg said:
kingofnobbys":32xydzeg said:
Poor girl .

You may not be aware of this, but under 2 years old, she is way to young to be mated and produce clutches of eggs.
I don't know why she is producing slugs if she's not been sharing with a male or had contact with one - none of my juvenile females ever have.

It's too hard on her body and system and will starve her of much needed dietary calcium and proteins which she needs for proper growth and development, she is still a juvenile at 12 months old and still has perhaps 12 months of growth in her before she is a fully mature and fully grown adult.

I can't add anything to Ellen's suggestions , I would suggest Manuka honey but if she's a digger this will quickly become an issue with sand being glued to her head / abrasions / scratches.

She isn't being mated yet, has calcium sand, calcium powder I put the mealworms in before I give them to her and Dubai roaches so I know she's getting plenty of calcium. I'm just worried about her cuts ?

The cuts are minor , I am TERRIBLY TROUBLED that she is on CALCI - SAND . That stuff MUST NEVER BE USED as a bedding/substrate for ANY LIZARD --- PERIOD !!! it's LETHAL WHEN INGESTED (accidentially stuck to greens and insects) and IT WILL KILL your beardie.

HIGHEST PRIORITY - I MEAN RIGHT NOW !! get rid of the CALCI - SAND.

I would definitely seek out a new reptile vet (who is actually competent) and ask as a matter of high urgency for xrays , as I am worried she may not actually be expecting , but severely impacted due to ingestion of CALCI - SAND , I hope I'm wrong.

Then deal with the abrasions on her snout.

Soo good news is I double checked with my father about the sand and he said it was vita sand and her cuts seem to be scanning over but she has a previous scab sticking up from her reopening it. Her vetericyn will be in today so I can spray that until it is 100% scabbed over!! Thank you for your help and all the concerns you had and thank you for taking the time out of your day to help me through this incident with goose. Sadly I do not have enough money to take her into the vets atm but I am saving up to eventually take her in to see them.
 

JessPets

Gray-bearded Member
Sadly that is not good news, as VitaSand is just a brand name for calcium sand.

Here is the product description: All Natural Vitamin-Fortified Calcium Carbonate Substrate.
 

anicole1020

Member
Original Poster
JessPets":2plskyrz said:
Sadly that is not good news, as VitaSand is just a brand name for calcium sand.

Here is the product description: All Natural Vitamin-Fortified Calcium Carbonate Substrate.
Ohh well dang
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I'm glad her cuts aren't as bad as I imagined, I assume that she is cutting her head on the objects in her tank that she is burrowing under.

As far as the calcium sand (Vitasand is the same thing) it's horrible stuff, just as deadly as the crushed walnut shells. The problem with calcium sand is that the added calcium in the sand causes it to turn into a cement when it gets wet. So imagine regular old sand, like play sand or beach sand. When it gets wet it gets dense and heavy, and that can be hard for them to pass if they eat it...But Vitasand or any type of calcium sand is meant to attract them to eat it, the scent and taste is designed for them to like it. So there is a much better chance that they'll eat it. But the horrible thing about that is when the calcium sand gets wet it cakes up and Actually hardens! You can see that for yourself if you wet some down, it immediately turns to a caked-up cement. And that's how it dries. So when they swallow it and it sits in their stomachs like that, they have absolutely no chance of passing it on their own, and the only way to save them is by surgery. At least with screen washed play sand, like they sell at Home Depot or Lowe's, they aren't tempted to eat it because there are no additives that are meant to tempt them. And if they do swallow a little accidentally, the play sand is fine enough that they can usually pass a few specs. They eat a ton of the calcium sand and they're dead. Or you have a $1,000+ vet bill to surgically remove it because it's in their stomach hard as a rock.

Now something else to think about here...If you must use sand in his tank then please, I beg you, immediately remove the calcium sand and put down paper towels until you can get to Lowe's or Home Depot to buy some screen-washed play sand. I've seen so many Beardies killed by calcium sand, crushed walnut shells, and different types of bark that I cannot tell you how important it is for you to remove all of that stuff immediately. I assume that in the next year or so they will not even sell it anymore, and if they do there will be a lot of warnings and directions on the bag as to not use it for Beardies. But also, in your situation, your beardie is actually hurting herself by digging into her sand, underneath her bowls, caves, etc. in her tank. So my best advice to you is to use NO SAND AT ALL, only solid substrates like tiles, paper towels, even Reptile carpet is better (personally I love paper towels because I just remove them, throw them away, and put new in their tanks; use a double or triple layer and you hardly have to clean the bottom of their tank but maybe a quick wipe down once a week). I'm willing to bet that if you remove all sand and use a solid substrate in her tank like paper towels she will stop digging under her stuff and stop cutting her head! You should then get a Rubbermaid or plastic container separate from her tank (cheap at Walmart or Big Lots) and fill it with play sand (50 pound bag is $3.75 at Home Depot!) and wet the sand slightly, and then use this as her lay box when you think she's ready to lay. Don't put any caves, bowls, rocks, etc., nothing in the lay box, and she'll just lay her eggs, won't cut herself any more, and then she'll have a 100% safe enclosure. And if you want something that looks really nice for her enclosure floor you can eventually go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some stick-on floor tiles that look really nice for her substrate. Then you just wipe them up with disinfectant and you're done, and some of the tiles look really awesome, like a sandy or rocky floor. But no risk of severe impaction and death, or constant bacterial and fungal infections that any type of sand is prone to harboring, no smells (that calcium sand stinks), and best of all, no vet bills for a sick, I hired, or dying beardie...

Seriously, I have a master's degree in Animal Health Science and worked at the Animal Diagnostics Lab at Penn State University. I've owned reptiles all my life, I'm now 37 and have 3 Beardies, 2 I've owned since they were a month old and they're both huge, healthy, happy, beautiful Beardies, my oldest girl is 8 months old and is almost 400 grams and over 18 inches long and she's not done growing, and my other little girl who is only 2 months old is heading in the same direction. Unfortunately my third beardie, an 11 month old male named Nix that I adopted from a family who loved him very much but didn't know how to care for him, well I've had Nix for a little over a month now, and the entire first week and a half I had him I thought I was going to lose him every single day due to what was easily the worst impaction I have ever seen. Nix is older than my girl but is only 14 inches long and now skinny as a rail. I got him on a Saturday night, drove him back home the 3 hour drive I made to pick him up, and I immediately started intense treatment for impaction, as he had no use of his back legs at all. His first real bowel movement was Sunday night after 3 feedings of different meds and laxative foods, he went to my Certified Reptile Vet Monday, then again Thursday and again Friday. I spent over $500 and we decided on surgery the next week to remove the impaction. On Saturday he again had a bowel movement, then again on Sunday, and started using his legs again...So he had 3 bowel movements in the first week I had him after intensive, all-day treatments for severe impaction. I cannot describe to you how large these 3 bowel movements were, or how rock solid, but I swear if you combined the 3 bowel movements he had that week it would equal the size of at least 2 of him, maybe 3 of him. I've never seen anything like it, and that stuff was inside him for at least a month based on what his previous family told me. He could pass tiny, normal bowel movements past the mass in his intestines, but not a normal bowel movement and the mass pressed against his spine and partially paralyzed him. He can now walk but not well, he uses his front legs only. He lost half his body weight when he passed the impaction, so his prior family had no idea how skinny he actually was because the mass of calcium sand inside his gastrointestinal tract was so large that it made him look like he was of normal weight, when in reality he was extremely thin and malnourished. Yes, it was brown calcium sand, it was Zoomed brand (Zoomed is a great Reptile company) and it's actually called "Bearded Dragon Calcium Sand"...So I spent over $500, almost a lot more had he not passed the impaction, and poor Nix has permanent damage to his spine because of this sand. And the worst part by far was watching this sweetheart of a beardie struggling to pass that junk. His beard would suddenly turn black as coal and he would strain so hard that his hips would snap and crack...He suffered so much because of a product that is marketed as being safe for him...So please, ditch all of the sand ASAP...
 

anicole1020

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":1q58oyhq said:
I'm glad her cuts aren't as bad as I imagined, I assume that she is cutting her head on the objects in her tank that she is burrowing under.

As far as the calcium sand (Vitasand is the same thing) it's horrible stuff, just as deadly as the crushed walnut shells. The problem with calcium sand is that the added calcium in the sand causes it to turn into a cement when it gets wet. So imagine regular old sand, like play sand or beach sand. When it gets wet it gets dense and heavy, and that can be hard for them to pass if they eat it...But Vitasand or any type of calcium sand is meant to attract them to eat it, the scent and taste is designed for them to like it. So there is a much better chance that they'll eat it. But the horrible thing about that is when the calcium sand gets wet it cakes up and Actually hardens! You can see that for yourself if you wet some down, it immediately turns to a caked-up cement. And that's how it dries. So when they swallow it and it sits in their stomachs like that, they have absolutely no chance of passing it on their own, and the only way to save them is by surgery. At least with screen washed play sand, like they sell at Home Depot or Lowe's, they aren't tempted to eat it because there are no additives that are meant to tempt them. And if they do swallow a little accidentally, the play sand is fine enough that they can usually pass a few specs. They eat a ton of the calcium sand and they're dead. Or you have a $1,000+ vet bill to surgically remove it because it's in their stomach hard as a rock.

Now something else to think about here...If you must use sand in his tank then please, I beg you, immediately remove the calcium sand and put down paper towels until you can get to Lowe's or Home Depot to buy some screen-washed play sand. I've seen so many Beardies killed by calcium sand, crushed walnut shells, and different types of bark that I cannot tell you how important it is for you to remove all of that stuff immediately. I assume that in the next year or so they will not even sell it anymore, and if they do there will be a lot of warnings and directions on the bag as to not use it for Beardies. But also, in your situation, your beardie is actually hurting herself by digging into her sand, underneath her bowls, caves, etc. in her tank. So my best advice to you is to use NO SAND AT ALL, only solid substrates like tiles, paper towels, even Reptile carpet is better (personally I love paper towels because I just remove them, throw them away, and put new in their tanks; use a double or triple layer and you hardly have to clean the bottom of their tank but maybe a quick wipe down once a week). I'm willing to bet that if you remove all sand and use a solid substrate in her tank like paper towels she will stop digging under her stuff and stop cutting her head! You should then get a Rubbermaid or plastic container separate from her tank (cheap at Walmart or Big Lots) and fill it with play sand (50 pound bag is $3.75 at Home Depot!) and wet the sand slightly, and then use this as her lay box when you think she's ready to lay. Don't put any caves, bowls, rocks, etc., nothing in the lay box, and she'll just lay her eggs, won't cut herself any more, and then she'll have a 100% safe enclosure. And if you want something that looks really nice for her enclosure floor you can eventually go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy some stick-on floor tiles that look really nice for her substrate. Then you just wipe them up with disinfectant and you're done, and some of the tiles look really awesome, like a sandy or rocky floor. But no risk of severe impaction and death, or constant bacterial and fungal infections that any type of sand is prone to harboring, no smells (that calcium sand stinks), and best of all, no vet bills for a sick, I hired, or dying beardie...

Seriously, I have a master's degree in Animal Health Science and worked at the Animal Diagnostics Lab at Penn State University. I've owned reptiles all my life, I'm now 37 and have 3 Beardies, 2 I've owned since they were a month old and they're both huge, healthy, happy, beautiful Beardies, my oldest girl is 8 months old and is almost 400 grams and over 18 inches long and she's not done growing, and my other little girl who is only 2 months old is heading in the same direction. Unfortunately my third beardie, an 11 month old male named Nix that I adopted from a family who loved him very much but didn't know how to care for him, well I've had Nix for a little over a month now, and the entire first week and a half I had him I thought I was going to lose him every single day due to what was easily the worst impaction I have ever seen. Nix is older than my girl but is only 14 inches long and now skinny as a rail. I got him on a Saturday night, drove him back home the 3 hour drive I made to pick him up, and I immediately started intense treatment for impaction, as he had no use of his back legs at all. His first real bowel movement was Sunday night after 3 feedings of different meds and laxative foods, he went to my Certified Reptile Vet Monday, then again Thursday and again Friday. I spent over $500 and we decided on surgery the next week to remove the impaction. On Saturday he again had a bowel movement, then again on Sunday, and started using his legs again...So he had 3 bowel movements in the first week I had him after intensive, all-day treatments for severe impaction. I cannot describe to you how large these 3 bowel movements were, or how rock solid, but I swear if you combined the 3 bowel movements he had that week it would equal the size of at least 2 of him, maybe 3 of him. I've never seen anything like it, and that stuff was inside him for at least a month based on what his previous family told me. He could pass tiny, normal bowel movements past the mass in his intestines, but not a normal bowel movement and the mass pressed against his spine and partially paralyzed him. He can now walk but not well, he uses his front legs only. He lost half his body weight when he passed the impaction, so his prior family had no idea how skinny he actually was because the mass of calcium sand inside his gastrointestinal tract was so large that it made him look like he was of normal weight, when in reality he was extremely thin and malnourished. Yes, it was brown calcium sand, it was Zoomed brand (Zoomed is a great Reptile company) and it's actually called "Bearded Dragon Calcium Sand"...So I spent over $500, almost a lot more had he not passed the impaction, and poor Nix has permanent damage to his spine because of this sand. And the worst part by far was watching this sweetheart of a beardie struggling to pass that junk. His beard would suddenly turn black as coal and he would strain so hard that his hips would snap and crack...He suffered so much because of a product that is marketed as being safe for him...So please, ditch all of the sand ASAP...

Thank you for your advice and taking the time out of your day to explain all of this to me. I will look into lowes and talk to my parents about getting the tile and think of doing some really cool setups for her terrarium.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
anicole1020":3e3n922l said:
AHBD":3e3n922l said:
Is it possible that she's trying to get under her water bowl ? Have you watched her dig, like what areas she digs in the most ? Maybe there's a narrow area inside of the little cave on the left side. Can you see inside of it, turn it over + check to see if there's an area where her head could get jammed + cause those marks on her nose ?

And although they do need treatment, they are not really infected and anything can easily be washed off since the wounds do not appear to be deep. You can use a bit of diluted betadine [ mix with water to the color of iced tea ] and dab it on, but don't get it in her eyes, or you can use plain water + then apply the raw honey if you get some. Raw honey is a natural antibiotic.....just put that on it. I've used it on all my dragons that ever had any type of wound including eye infection + use it when I myself get a cut.

But I agree that the sand should be taken out, [ it's going to stick to the sores ! ] you can put down newspaper temporarily [ she'll enjoy shredding it ] and then get some non adhesive shelf liner when you can get to Walmart.
I ended up purchasing vetericyn to spray on the wound, it was recommended by a vet when I called and also the owners of the reptile shop.
<<< petshop owner's opinion is worthless , follow the directions given by the REPTILE VET if the vet has ACTUALLY SEEN HIM (in the surgery / clinic).
Has a vet ACTUALLY SEEN HIM ? .... this is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL , a reptile vet MUST see and examine him and take appropriate samples where needed to give a PROPER DIAGNOSIS, not even seeing him and recommending a treatment is VERY DISTURBING and SHEAR INCOMPETENCE IMO..


Thank you so much for your help today I was so worried about what to do with goose and I don't have enough money to take her into the vet. I will totally remember your advice when my other lady lizard ,duck, starts to do the same thing! Hopefully her cuts heal up soon within a couple of days from the honey and the vetericyn spray!

I looked up the stuff
Vetericyn® products are a next generation line of animal health care that offer an advanced alternative to saline solutions. We offer an array of products from the Vetericyn® Plus line that are pH-balanced solutions used for cleansing, irrigating and debriding wounds, which sets the stage for optimal healing conditions. All Vetericyn® products are as safe as they are effective!
and had to go hunting to find it's ingredients , wanted to know what it had in it to help treat wounds
see
vetcillin.png

Sorry but you have paid for water (is very dilute sodium hydroxide).
vetericyn is no better than sterile saline solution ,and has zero antiseptic properties. The vet and pet shop have ripped you off.

... BTW .... please avoid spraying or applying this stuff to his eyes .... IT WILL HURT and can damage his eyes severely.

The honey will help, all the vetericyn will do is perhaps wash the wounds (maybe).It is a waste of money.
 
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