RESPIRATORY INFECTION / BLACK BEARD/TAIL, LETHARGIC

So this has been going on for a week. First i noticed his fat pads had sunken in and his eyes were very droopy, red flag right there. This is my first beardie, and i wanted to not take any risks. I kept an eye on him and he still had an appetite and pooped regularly, and not until i was holding him i not only heard but felt his chest crackle as he breathed. I felt my whole body go cold and immediately went to tell my parents we should consider taking him to the vet if he gets worse. Low and behold, he gets worse. He has trouble drinking water, every time he is done drinking hell open his mouth and gasp for water, making me have to angle him downward and water came out of his mouth and nose. This continued for three days. And in that period of time i BEGGED my parents to get him medical help because on the third day, when he started drinking water he started gasping and instead of water coming out of his nose, it was mucus. My parents were so stubborn and said it was fine, and i was overthinking since i have a past of being a hypochondriac, PLUS my mom is supposed to get a biopsy because she might have breast cancer. They are all treating me like im a monster for supposedly caring more about my pets than my mother, which they should know is NOT TRUE. They finally took me to the vet yesterday, and their "reptile vet" (aka the person who used to raise dragons so that automatically makes them qualified to care for other people's pets, yeah, right.) came in and started telling me that respiratory infections in juveniles are almost unheard of, and proceeded to open my dragons mouth with a Q-tip and said he saw nothing out of the ordinary, did absolutely NOTHING ELSE. He did not even listen to his breathe sounds. Of course my parents are saying that he is more experienced than people on online forums or instagram and saying i am obsessed with it. Nobody in my family is listening to me, saying that im too young and inexperienced. I am a sophmore and highschool, not a 4th grader, and turning 15 tomorrow and if i take him to the vet again, i have to use my own birthday money, which i have no problem with. I am just at a loss of words. Right now he's sitting on my shoulder, tip of his tail black, not moving, and beard black, and lethargic, and my parents STILL think im just seeing things. Please somebody give me advice, I have no idea what to do. ?

Hello,

I am so sorry your family is not concerned for your dragon's health, at all. We see this fairly often on here which is unfortunate.
Are you going to be able to get him to another vet? He does need vet care, but I understand the situation. Respiratory infections are very common in juveniles though so that vet was definitely incorrect.
Do you happen to have access to a nebulizer at all? Is there a Tractor supply store in your area?
You might be able to find Tetracycline which is an antibiotic you could use to treat a respiratory infection.
Are you keeping him warmer overnight, around 80 or so right now?

Tracie

If your parents don't care and wont help (pay for a vet) , try your grandparents (they might lend you the money to pay for the vet visit and any prescribed drugs). Beardied dragons don't blackbeard and become lethargic unless they are EXTREMELY ILL, perhaps even critically ill. IMO he needs to be taken to good reptile vet as an emergency.

Worth considering F10 nebulization as per described below (in the image).

F10 is a vet strength disinfectant that is very powerful and people have had success using F10sc to treat using nebulizers very ill reptiles suffering from respiratory infections (influenza may be either a bacteria or viral infection , a vet needs to examine the beardie and get a swab to work out what exactly you and he are dealing with). If viral influenza , antibiotics are only a help in helping fight secondary bacterial infections while the reptile's immune system is compromise.

Refer to https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=232783

Info on F10 http://www.f10products.co.uk/index.php?id=4 .

I only have my two grandmothers, one from mom and one from dad. My dad's side is ill, and has tons of hospital bills, and my mom's side is battling cancer and doing well, but this is just a bad time for all of this to happen. I have money, but it's my birthday money as i said and i have no problem using it on my beardie. When i first got him he was so perky and would run around his cage, now he barely moves off of his hammock.

OK .... I feel for you grandmums .... horrible situation to find themselves in in their sunset years.


Since you have the money , all you need do is find someone to drive you there and accompany you , maybe one of them can take you there as your supervising adult , or maybe a friendly neighbor or one of your bestfriend's parents , so ...

I found a perfect vet and I'll schedule an appointment later. Thank you for your suggestions

Wow, that's an awful thing, especially the uneducated and inexperienced vet, that statement about "respiratory infection in juveniles being very rare" might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard a vet say. She may have been catering to your parents wishes, like they told her to say the beardie was fine, or she really is an uneducated vet that should not be treating reptiles at all. Either way unfortunately the only ones that suffer due to her ineptness are your beardie and you, because those are all classic signs of a severe upper respiratory infection, and unfortunately the only way to help your beardie is to find a qualified, experienced reptile vet, otherwise your beardie will not survive much longer.

If you did already find a vet that you believe is qualified and willing to help your beardie, please do a couple of things. First, ask as many questions as you can. Make this vet do the proper things, like taking a culture of your beardie's mouth/nostrils/throat and sending it out for testing to ensure that he gets the correct antibiotics. And please do not leave this vet without a full course of antibiotics, because this is the only way he's going to get well. They may call you later on after the culture comes back and tell you to switch antibiotics, if they do then please do it because the culture will tell them exactly what bug(s) he has and what medications will treat them. They will likely put him on a broad-spectrum antibiotic and maybe an antifungal as well, because with upper respiratory infections in Beardies they often get a combination of a bacterial infection and a fungal infection, like aspergillus, so a lot of the time they will put them on both an antibiotic and an antifungal at the same time, which is OK. But after the culture comes back from the lab they might have to switch medications based on the results, so make sure that is all done.

Also, please ask for probiotics to give your beardie along with the antibiotic and antifungal medications, because these medications are very tough on their gastrointestinal systems and they often stop eating and have bowel movement issues like runny poop due to the meds. If you give him probiotics during the treatments they typically do a really good job of making their tummy feel better and increasing their appetites.

Also keep in mind that reptiles, being cold blooded, heal very, very slowly, and it often takes a very long course of antibiotics and antifungals, sometimes multiple courses, to get rid of the Infections (another reason to ask for probiotics, if the vet tells you that probiotics aren't necessary tell him you want them anyway). Treating a beardie upper respiratory infection take a lot of time and patience, but it sounds like you're ready and willing. I appreciate you spending your own money to help your beardie, most teenagers would not do that. But as I said, he has all the classic symptoms of a severe upper respiratory infection and he's also very uncomfortable and in pain, as represented by the black beard, and it's 100% necessary to get him a culture and immediately get him on proper prescription medications, because he will not survive much longer without them.

And please make sure you get copies of everything from the vet, all of the paperwork that states his vitals like his weight, and all of the notes about their physical findings and diagnosis and what medications were given along with detailed dosing instructions, and also be sure to get a copy of any tests they run, and when the results come back and they call you with them make sure you either go pick up a copy of the results or have them email them to you, because it's not unusual for vets to not want to give paperwork...

I hope the vet you found is a qualified, experienced Reptile vet with bearded dragon experience, and I hope they know what they're doing this time. I suggest that after you get a diagnosis and he's put on medications (and especially after you get the culture results back) that you take a copy to that first vet and tell her that she has no business treating bearded dragons, and that upper respiratory infections in Beardies, regardless of age, are one of the most common illnesses they can suffer from. We see upper respiratory infections in baby Beardies, juveniles, and adults on here every day, and she needs to know that if a bearded dragon has a constant black beard, that means the they are uncomfortable and in pain, and if she doesn't even know that then she shouldn't be seeing them. That really is frustrating. And I hope your parents also learn from this experience too after he gets diagnosed and put on multiple medications. I'm sure your parents mean well, but they really need to realize that finding a veterinarian that is experienced in treating reptiles and who knows what they're doing is very rare, and that it's the people like us, in the online forums, who know what we're talking about because we have spent years and in some cases our entire lives raising and caring for bearded dragons. The same goes for people in bird forums, fish forums, ferret forums, etc. Vets go to veterinary school for 4 years and they can specialize in a specific species if they want to AFTER they get their general veterinary training. It's exactly the same as doctors that see people, I'm sure your parents wouldn't go see their general practitioner or family doctor to treat a broken bone, they'd go to an orthopedic surgeon. It's the same thing, only the number of vets that specialize in reptiles is very low....

Good luck, and I hope you get your beardie to the vet soon. You should bump up his temperatures in the meantime by 5 degrees or so, that can help a bit, and make sure you remove any water dishes from his enclosure. And no baths until he sees the vet either.

Hello,

That's great news you are taking him in to see the vet. I hope they will do a swab/culture to determine a respiratory infection but it's likely that's what is going on.
Let us know how he is doing, he is a very lucky dragon to have you...
Sorry about your grandmas.

Tracie

Please give updates .

We are all pulling for him and sending goodvibes towards your sick beardie.

Probably good idea to take photos / scans of the vets reports / test results and any xray taken so these can be reviewed , incase the vet misses something.

Don't forget that F10 NEBULISATION has been used successfully to help treat reptiles suffering from respiratory infections, will be very helpful to him if you buy some F10sc and a F10Spray bottle and some F10 Wipes so you can keep his viv and furnature germ free . Beardies can't blow their noses or wash their hands so unless you get into a routine of daily tank and furnature sterilization using F10 spray (1 part F10sc in 200 parts water) and wiping stuff down and wiping your hands with the F10 handwipes, he runs big risk of continually being reinfected because influenza germs can survive quite a while on any surface he coming in contact with.
Best substrate for him is paper toweling, replace morning and night.

And please keep him warm 24/7 while he's sick and under treatment.

Today i woke up and found him coughing and blackbearding. We are taking him today. That vet should get sued for a botch diagnosis

Oh I'm so sorry, I figured that was going to happen, that he'd get much worse, because respiratory infections don't go away on their own...Yes, I'll repeat myself, when you get the paperwork from the new vet you see that has his diagnosis, the culture results, and the prescribed medications and treatments, you need to take them to that first vet and make sure she knows that you paid her to do absolutely nothing except waste precious time while your beardie was getting more and more sick, and that she shouldn't be telling people that "juvenile bearded dragons rarely get respiratory infections", because that's going to kill people's pets. Why she would think that age has something to do with whether or not a lizard can get an Infection is beyond me, but it's pathetic that she is even treating reptiles and she absolutely shouldn't be because she is obviously not qualified, and is taking a lot of money from people for doing nothing but harming their pets.

Please keep us posted on how he is and what the new vet says and does. Hopefully this one is a qualified reptile vet with some experience, or at least they have a brain in their head.

Hello,

Good grief, so sorry that he got so much worse! I'm glad you are taking him in.
Please let us know how he is doing. I hope this vet is aggressive in her treatment, since he is
very ill right now.
The first vet was definitely not good! I agree, I would at least call to complain for not attempting to diagnose him at all, allowing him to become more ill.

Tracie

....at the very least named and shamed to ensure no one on these boards ever goes near them with their pets, you should spread the word locally about this incompetent vet, if he tries to lawyer up on you to shut you up , IMO he wouldn't have a leg to stand on legally and you have plenty of supporting evidence to back you up.

I hope your new vet can get on top of this now critical case of RI , mention to him the information I've provided about F10 nebulization and keeping his viv and stuff clean using F10 spray and handwipes.

I expect you beardie will this bad RI attacked from several directions now it's become so ill. Much of this could have been avoided in the first place if the first vet had even bothered to same swabs and sent them off for culturing and sensitivity testing (this takes time).

Good luck, keep us posted on how beardie goes.

Drache613":3l2qbpqf said:

Hello,

Good grief, so sorry that he got so much worse! I'm glad you are taking him in.
Please let us know how he is doing. I hope this vet is aggressive in her treatment, since he is
very ill right now.
The first vet was definitely not good! I agree, I would at least call to complain for not attempting to diagnose him at all, allowing him to become more ill.

Tracie

Click to expand...

Can vets be deregistered for incompetence in the USA ?
.... who would you contact to start the process (in the case of a USA based vet) ?

Hello everyone! Thank you all so much for your support and advice. I will be making a phone call to that vet today who made my baby suffer all those weeks. The vet is Kryder Veterinary Clinic in Granger, Indiana. Nobody should go there, the Dr I saw was Dr. Kryder (no surprise his name was the name of the clinic) his exam was not thorough and his advice was based on experience and not fact. I got him a dose of antibiotics, and he should hopefully be feeling better in about a week. Big thank you to the Gilmer Park Animal Clinic, especially Dr. Herget. She was more than happy to answer all my questions and understanding of my concerns. Thank you all again for everything