Swollen Leg and Foot

Update: Looks like Elliot goes through good days and bad days like any human with Gout would. He's didn't eat yesterday and today he's just laying around. He hasn't hunted food since the last post. A fluke maybe... He got pretty upset at me yesterday when I gave him his meds. He tried to sleep in his water again. Not sure if that's ok, so I take him out. Anyway, Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks again,
Jenny & Elliot

Hi there, I know you've asked about the water bowl and yes, take it out. Sometimes a dragon will spend too much time + get chilled, plus it can cause scale rot to lay there for hours. Offer water his syringe or spray bottle [ gently ] oh his snout.

Even though he's not eating every day it sounds like he is over all actually doing better. You can cripple the crickets by shaking them in a jar vigorously until they're weak/slow moving, then drop a few right near him. Some dragons are more apt to go for them when they are not zoomimg around. You can also try squishing one until the guts come out [ I know, gross ! ] and rubbing it lightly on his snout.

Hello Jenny,

I agree, Elliot will have good & bad days but I think overall he is doing better.
Is it me or does his feet & hands appear dull/whitish as if they may shed? If so, that could
explain his lethargic behavior or lack of appetite.
I am really pulling for him & hope that he continues to improve. They can be very stubborn
about taking their meds.
As suggested, definitely take the water dish out he doesn't really need it.
Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

Hey all!!! Well, here's another update on Elliot... So I was gone for almost a week in Minneapolis and my husband did his best to care for the animals. He really struggled getting Elliot to take his meds.. not sure how much he really got in. He was worried he would hurt him. Needless to say... He has regressed in his healing. Upon return he was no longer chasing his crickets and pretty swollen again. Of course I initiated treatment once again asap. I've been back since Thursday and he seems to be doing better, however I believe he's vomiting. I didn't see him do it, but it is a lot of crickets (body parts) mixed with sweet potato and greens, so I'm assuming that's what it is. He didn't eat today, neither veggies nor bugs. I gave him a small amount of banana a few days ago, for a treat, I hope this didn't hurt him. I had Google'd it and found it should be rarely given... Anyway, it's almost been a month and we're coming to the end of his medicine. What should I do now? I feel like if I stop giving him his meds he'll regress again.

I did remove the water dish and only bathe him after feeding. I also spray his tree with water and offer a small amount on his nose. Looking forward to hearing from y'all! I've really appreciated your help!

Jenny & Elliot

Hello Jenny,

Poor Elliott! How many crickets does he get weekly again?
Isn't the vet going to refill the prescription? It is essential that he stays on it right now, otherwise,
he wont make it with kidney damage.
A little bit of banana is fine. How often has he vomited? Is he getting too much food volume in
one sitting possibly?
Try keeping his tank around 80 overnight, to help with his immune system & digestion.
He has improved some since you got home then?
If your vet wont give you a refill let me know. There are a few sites you can order the allopurinol from, online.

Tracie

I found 3, 50 cent piece size, piles today when I got home. He ate a healthy amount of crickets yesterday, and even hunted them. He has not shed as previously thought. I was hoping that he may have just eaten too many yesterday as he first enjoyed his veggies and a few hours later he had about 30 crickets. I will contact the vet to see about a refill and let you know. I'll post some pics of his limbs again... And you can let me know what you think. Are we still under the thought of no antibiotics??? Just curious. I haven't given him any. He didn't poo today, but I didn't bathe him either and that's his choice location. Anyway, I'll keep u posted. Let me know about the pics.

Oh, one final thing. I have been able to get him to take about 1/2ml of the tart cherry juice... But he won't take the full 1ml. Should I give that to him still???

Jenny

Hi Jenny, sorry to hear that he threw up.....30 crickets was waaaaay too many. When he gets his appetite back just offer 5-6 large or 8-10 medium crix at a time. An adult dragon would never need 30 insects at a time BTW, no matter what condition they were in. Hopefully he gets over this set back ASAP.

I get so many different thoughts it's impossible to know what the right way really is. I read let them eat as much as the want for 15mins. I don't do that. I only give them 5 minutes. So, I don't know. The crickets are only 1/2 grown because of my other beardie. Anyway, I wish there was a step by step guide to BD care... This has been crazy!!!

Jenny

Here are some new pics.... and my favorite!!!!

Hello Jenny,

If he wont take the full 1ml of tart cherry then 1/2ml will be fine.
I just don't think he has an infection so antibiotics shouldn't be needed. His swelling was going
down before you left, right?
I agree, 30 crickets is too many which is likely what caused him to vomit. I would give him a few days before giving anymore insects. Since he has gout, his insects should be limited weekly to around 30 or so, with an emphasis on greens & vegetation.
I would really encourage you to keep him on allopurinol. Give him a chance to respond to the meds, it does take awhile for them to work, but you have to be consistent.
He is such a nice looking dragon, too! It is still early on with his condition so I think you can still get his swelling down with some work.

Let us know how Elliot is doing.

Tracie

Yes. His swelling has definitely gone down some. If u look at the first set of pics, his left rear foot was extremely swollen. The foot itself doesn't look nearly as puffy any longer. And his left front foot was swollen underneath as well as the forearm portion of these limbs. It seems as though he has more trouble with his left side than he does his right. How many crickets am I supposed to be feeding my babies? My other dragon, Animal, eats nearly as many crickets in his daily feeding. I should also cut him back to 30/week??? At this point, they go through about 600/700 (1/2 grown) crickets every 2 weeks together. They chomp up 20-25 within 5 minutes. Animal was diagnosed with MBD within a month after I got him. He seems to be doing great now, but I'm afraid he'll develop gout as well. It's just my luck to get two dragons a month apart and have major issues with both of em. Sigh...

Jenny & Elliot & Animal

Ok. Well, I've been successful in my ability to obtain a refill of Elliot's prescription!!! YAY! I haven't given him any crickets today. He seems to be doing ok. I was looking on this site and found a link to beautifuldragons.com. After further research I have determined that crickets aren't the best source of protein to be giving my babies. They should be fed occasionally, but not as a staple food. :shock: Why do I feel like all I do is ??? I have done so much research :study: asked so many questions :?: worked so hard to build a good life for these little guys. It all just makes me . What is there left to do? I just had 1000 crickets delivered yesterday. I have now ordered 1000 Phoenix Worms and am looking into silkworms as it seems Elliot would be best having these at this point. :idea: Well, anyway, I guess that's life. Nothing ever stays the same and information constantly changing!!! I really wish all your amazing brains would make a how-to book for those pet store owners. No one there has any clue what they're doing! I should've been giving my boys worms this whole time. Is this the conciseness?

Jenny

There's nothing wrong with crickets. Where did they come up with their conclusion ? You can use variety of feeder insects, and they are one of the best. They certainly would not cause gout....I fed mainly crickets to my dragons for over 20 years, never had a dragon with gout, never saw fellow owners or breeders with gout in any of their dragons. The beautiful dragons site is good but it's not the absolute authority on feeding dragons.

Don't be afraid to use your crickets. They absolutely are one of the best staple foods and you don't need to be afraid of using your newly arrived 1,000.

AHBD":1blcqxbl said:

There's nothing wrong with crickets. Where did they come up with their conclusion ? You can use variety of feeder insects, and they are one of the best. They certainly would not cause gout....I fed mainly crickets to my dragons for over 20 years, never had a dragon with gout, never saw fellow owners or breeders with gout in any of their dragons. The beautiful dragons site is good but it's not the absolute authority on feeding dragons.

Don't be afraid to use your crickets. They absolutely are one of the best staple foods and you don't need to be afraid of using your newly arrived 1,000.

Click to expand...

Ok. Well, it's just frustrating. I saw them as a staple food, but now I find out they're an occasional food. I don't know what to believe really. I feel like I've caused his problems and I'm just frustrated.

Hello Jenny,

Oh no, the crickets are perfectly fine as a staple, just as good as roaches. I have used them as a staple for years, without any issues.
I am sorry, how old is Elliot again?
You could cut back some on his insects but since he is showing so much progress, it sounds like what you are doing is working.
I am so glad that you were able to get a refill on the prescription, that is great!
How is he doing today?
Don't doubt yourself, you are doing just fine with him.

Tracie