one month baby dragon stargazing?

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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:16 am

Aqua mirabilis ... Is just mineral water ... I can't see it being any benefit in treating a hatchling bearded dragon who has Atadenovirus.

AquaNano-Protect, argint coloidal 15ppm ( is very dilute )... i'll let others comment on it value and effectiveness in treating Atadenovirus.

Stargazing as a symptom of a RI ? , never heard of that .... I think it's important to have a vet take both parents bloods for testing for Atadenovirus since the hatchlings are too small to take bloods for testing. If mom , or dad have it, it only takes one , they all have have it.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:26 am

I called a reptile vet (there are few reptiles vet in an European Capital, shame..) and I will have the parents tested on Tuesday. I found 3 vets in my city that can handle reptile problems but someone recommended me this one so yeah, she got an African Hedgehog and the vet solved many of her problems.

I hope everything will be okay. The adult male, Ra, sleeps a lot but after he wakes up he's hella active. The adult female, Hathor is active all day. But still, I'm gonna take the tests.

Thank you all for your help, I'll keep you in touch.
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:16 am

http://www.anapsid.org/vets/romania.html

Romania is a tiny place , everywhere there is an easy days drive from everywhere else.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:07 am

Yeah, that's the one I found too. Romania is a country :D. It is the 12th country based on size of 48 European countries. Not tiny at all. I live in its Capital, Bucharest. If there's no many reptiles vet in its capital, I don't know what's outside of it. Well, you see, there are not many people with exotic animals in here. There are few. Even though they are sold in petshops, nobody buy them I think. Yesterday I went to a big petshop and they had beardies, something like 6-7 hatchlings in a 60x45x30 tank. Also they used sand as substrate and there was a cactus also. It is a hell when it comes to buy food. I bought 3000x adult cinerea and I started my own colony just in case. The shops sell superworms and meal worms and they are expensive compared to other countries. Like 25 cents per worm..
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:25 am

Iamakel wrote:Yeah, that's the one I found too. Romania is a country :D. It is the 12th country based on size of 48 European countries. Not tiny at all. I live in its Capital, Bucharest. If there's no many reptiles vet in its capital, I don't know what's outside of it. Well, you see, there are not many people with exotic animals in here. There are few. Even though they are sold in petshops, nobody buy them I think. Yesterday I went to a big petshop and they had beardies, something like 6-7 hatchlings in a 60x45x30 tank. Also they used sand as substrate and there was a cactus also. It is a hell when it comes to buy food. I bought 3000x adult cinerea and I started my own colony just in case. The shops sell superworms and meal worms and they are expensive compared to other countries. Like 25 cents per worm..




I guess it's a matter of perspective - I live in Australia and my region (the Hunter & nth coast ) is bigger than Romania .... and people here think nothing of driving 400km per day to commute (ie driving from Newcastle to Sydney and back again).

Romania is 238,391 km² , my state NSW is 809,444 km².

Farms are often 1000s square km area here , and there are ranches which are bigger than European countries here.

I've driven the main highways in outback Australia for the entire day and not so much as seen a single car or car going the other direction .... let alone a village or even a house or a person. The runs from Perth WA - Newman WA ( 1195km) and to Pt Hedland ( 454km ) and to Broome ( 611 km ) and to Kununarra ( 1016km ) were like that, as was the run from Katherine NT to Camooweal QLD ( 1181 km) and from Camooweal via Normanton to Cairns ( 1354km ) .
Thank heavens for my longrange fuel tank ( 160L tank) under my Pajero 4x4 Long Wheel base + my car fridge/freezer (Engal 39L , 12VDC / 240VAC) and the car aircon (was HOT !!! out there !!! ) else I'd never would have tried these driving adventures (saw lots of roos, emus, snakes, goannas, dragons, skinks and geckos, and loads of parrots or all sizes, and the scenary was magnificent , often one day runs turned into 3 or 4 day runs as we made diversions to explore and take photos or found a good spot to camp or to fish or simply to put our feet up and relax once we had the fire going and the food cooking either in the pot or on the BBQ..
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Drache613 » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:56 am

Hello,


Wow Romania, welcome to the forum! :D
Ok, I am not familiar with that particular colloidal silver but it appears to "ok" I would think.
I doubt it was the silver that killed them unless somehow the silver was contaminated. I would
think that possibly the other elixar could have but just not sure. Aspiration in little ones is very common & usually kills them if you don't act quickly.
It may just be a severe infection of some sort, a respiratory or bacterial infection.
Can you post any pictures of that large tank & their setups then along with the lighting?
That is good you are going to get them tested. Are they doing a fecal test for adeno then?
Stargazing is many times a symptom of respiratory infections because they can't breathe very well & or the fluids are affecting their balance in the nasal cavity area.
How are they doing today?


Tracie
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:08 pm

Drache613 wrote:Hello,


Wow Romania, welcome to the forum! :D
Ok, I am not familiar with that particular colloidal silver but it appears to "ok" I would think.
I doubt it was the silver that killed them unless somehow the silver was contaminated. I would
think that possibly the other elixar could have but just not sure. Aspiration in little ones is very common & usually kills them if you don't act quickly.
It may just be a severe infection of some sort, a respiratory or bacterial infection.
Can you post any pictures of that large tank & their setups then along with the lighting?
That is good you are going to get them tested. Are they doing a fecal test for adeno then?
Stargazing is many times a symptom of respiratory infections because they can't breathe very well & or the fluids are affecting their balance in the nasal cavity area.
How are they doing today?


Tracie


Hello, they were really good today. I kept them mostly outside because it was such a great day (94-95). They didn't eat that much, probably because yestersay I feed them twice and no veggies. They were used to veggies in the morning and roaches in the evening. Seems like they like big cinereas' intestines. I cut a big bug in half and his intestines come out and i put them near beardies mouth. They eat more like this than little bugs. They don't eat the bug's "flesh", just what's inside its tummy. Also the fatty one likes to eat the upper body of a big roach cut in half, almost as big as the space between his eyes (no bigger).

I keep the babies, now they are 4, you know.. in this viv (the viv I got when I got the adults, the girl sold them with the viv too; I disinfect it etc):

http://i.imgur.com/Qs9NMtD.jpg

The lights are: ReptiGlo 2.0 Tube with JBL ReptilSpot HaloDym 28W 2650 K for heat but also on the box of it it says 40W in the top of the bulb. This was the main setup that their parents lived for about 2 years. I changed the lights ofc, but I kept the same brand and power.

This is the new adults' viv. It was meant for an Iguana, but I put out the branches and the leaves to make more space. I kept the same decorations they lived with. They bask on a big piece of wood that's holding the hide wood in the photo. The hide wood I put in the cold spot of the viv during the day. When the evening is approaching the male wants to sleep so I make a hiding spot under the basking spot. The female gets a closer spot of basking by climbing on the wood then she goes to sleep too under it. They are smarter than the people say. They will only poop on the newspaper and in bath room during baths. I keep them daily on the floor and when they need to poop they go back in the viv, eat a bit then poop. That's how that girl taught them, I guess.

http://i.imgur.com/XeJ72O6.jpg

The lights in this viv are: ReptiGlo 2.0 bulb and Terra Ceramic 150W for basking
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:30 pm

Iamakel wrote:
Drache613 wrote:Hello,


Wow Romania, welcome to the forum! :D
Ok, I am not familiar with that particular colloidal silver but it appears to "ok" I would think.
I doubt it was the silver that killed them unless somehow the silver was contaminated. I would
think that possibly the other elixar could have but just not sure. Aspiration in little ones is very common & usually kills them if you don't act quickly.
It may just be a severe infection of some sort, a respiratory or bacterial infection.
Can you post any pictures of that large tank & their setups then along with the lighting?
That is good you are going to get them tested. Are they doing a fecal test for adeno then?
Stargazing is many times a symptom of respiratory infections because they can't breathe very well & or the fluids are affecting their balance in the nasal cavity area.
How are they doing today?


Tracie


Hello, they were really good today. I kept them mostly outside because it was such a great day (94-95). They didn't eat that much, probably because yestersay I feed them twice and no veggies. They were used to veggies in the morning and roaches in the evening. Seems like they like big cinereas' intestines. I cut a big bug in half and his intestines come out and i put them near beardies mouth. They eat more like this than little bugs. They don't eat the bug's "flesh", just what's inside its tummy. Also the fatty one likes to eat the upper body of a big roach cut in half, almost as big as the space between his eyes (no bigger).
<<< such young hatchlings REQUIRE AT LEAST TWO bug meals PER DAY, only offer greens and veg in pm after they had their insect protein and dietary calcium , not before, else they will not get enough dietsry calcium or protein to thrive and grow properly.

I keep the babies, now they are 4, you know.. in this viv (the viv I got when I got the adults, the girl sold them with the viv too; I disinfect it etc):

http://i.imgur.com/Qs9NMtD.jpg

The lights are: ReptiGlo 2.0 Tube <<< reptiglow 2.0%uvb compact is worthless for bearded dragons , totally inadequate even if 26W version, please replace this tube with a 26W reptiglow 10%uvb
see http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/co ... _bulbs.php

OR 26W UVB200 ( I use these in nanohoods , bulb is 8 inch from basking spot)
see nano version here http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_top.php
and see http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/reptile_uvb200.php

or BETTER a t5 arcadia 12%uvb tube in a reflector hood mounted under the lid
see http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/fluoresc ... us-desert/
http://www.habistat.org/Lighting/lighti ... C&limit=25

, do this as a very high priority ,else your hatchlings will wind up with MBD and serious neurological problems and they will fail to thrive .


,with JBL ReptilSpot HaloDym 28W 2650 K for heat but also on the box of it it says 40W in the top of the bulb. This was the main setup that their parents lived for about 2 years. I changed the lights ofc, but I kept the same brand and power.
<<<<
this
https://www.jbl.de/?lang=en&mod=product ... il&id=5929 ?
I have no information on the quality of JBL brand uv lighting , however Neodymium globes are not a good choice of basking light, better off with something like http://www.lighting.philips.com/main/pr ... EU/product , just light and heat , and lots cheaper than
Neodymium globes which have poor longevity and often have a poor uv spectra .

This is the new adults' viv. It was meant for an Iguana, but I put out the branches and the leaves to make more space. I kept the same decorations they lived with. They bask on a big piece of wood that's holding the hide wood in the photo. The hide wood I put in the cold spot of the viv during the day. When the evening is approaching the male wants to sleep so I make a hiding spot under the basking spot. The female gets a closer spot of basking by climbing on the wood then she goes to sleep too under it. They are smarter than the people say. They will only poop on the newspaper and in bath room during baths. I keep them daily on the floor and when they need to poop they go back in the viv, eat a bit then poop. That's how that girl taught them, I guess.

<<< I repeat - PLEASE SEPARATE this pair , they will be much better off in their own 4x2x2 vivs.
&
PLEASE separate the remaining 4 hatchlings into their own rearing tubs too , both these are a matter of high priority .
&
As well as providing adequate UVA and UVB for all SIX of your beardied (AT LEAST 10% UVB rated 26W bulbs or 10% UVB rated T5 tubes , also very high priority , as is testing mom and dad beardies for AV.

You have some work and expenses - but these are UNAVOIDABLE and NECESSARY if you want your tribe of beardies to be healthy.

http://i.imgur.com/XeJ72O6.jpg

The lights in this viv are: ReptiGlo 2.0 bulb and Terra Ceramic 150W for basking <<< sorry this is but NOT GOOD . See comments above.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:47 am

Thank you. I will make the babies' viv in 4 sections and I will distribute them individually in it, also I need to change the position of the lights. Yes, the heat bulb in the babies' tank is the one you linked there from JBL's site. Here, there's only one brand pet shop called Animax that deal with reptiles and their needs. Here's their links of UVB bulbs:
https://animax.ro/lampa-mega-sun-uvb-5.0-26w.html
https://animax.ro/lampa-terariu-ultrasu ... lanet.html
https://animax.ro/jbl-reptil-jungle-uv-190.html
https://animax.ro/solar-reptil-jungle-9 ... -w-ro.html
https://animax.ro/lampa-repti-glo-5.0-30-w.html
https://animax.ro/reptisun-fluorescent- ... esert.html
https://animax.ro/lampa-mega-sun-uvb-10.0-13-w.html
https://animax.ro/jbl-solar-uv-spot-160w.html (this one is hella expensive)
https://animax.ro/exo-terra-bec-sunray-50w.html

That's all. They got ReptiGlo 5.0 in stores, I saw it but that's the bigger I saw. Ofc they got those expensive ones that I listed above. Yes, you don't understand Romanian but their names are in the links so you can get a clue of a good one, probably something you use too.

I can't separate the adults now, probably in few weeks due to incapability of buying a new viv. I'm going to change their UVB bulb too, but tell me with which one listed above, except the expensive one (80$). Also keep in mind that in the adults viv I'm using a Terra Ceramic 150W
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:02 am

Iamakel wrote:Thank you. I will make the babies' viv in 4 sections and I will distribute them individually in it, also I need to change the position of the lights. Yes, the heat bulb in the babies' tank is the one you linked there from JBL's site. Here, there's only one brand pet shop called Animax that deal with reptiles and their needs. Here's their links of UVB bulbs:
https://animax.ro/lampa-mega-sun-uvb-5.0-26w.html <<< NO GOOD is only 5%UVB
https://animax.ro/lampa-terariu-ultrasu ... lanet.html <<< 100W MVB is OK for heat, light , UVA and UVB
https://animax.ro/jbl-reptil-jungle-uv-190.html <<< 8%UVB but only 15W so wont have the penetration power in UVA and UVB so NO GOOD
https://animax.ro/solar-reptil-jungle-900-mm-30-w-ro.html <<< NO GOOD is only a 5%UVB tube
https://animax.ro/lampa-repti-glo-5.0-30-w.html <<< NO GOOD is only a 5%UVB compact https://animax.ro/reptisun-fluorescent-10-uvb-desert.html <<< might be OK - it's a 10%UVB compact IF ITS the 26W and not the 13W version.
https://animax.ro/lampa-mega-sun-uvb-10.0-13-w.html <<< NO GOOD only 13W so not enough penetration power in the UVA and UVB generated.
https://animax.ro/jbl-solar-uv-spot-160w.html (this one is hella expensive) <<< NO GOOD only rated 7%UVB , seems not all MVBs are created equal .
https://animax.ro/exo-terra-bec-sunray-50w.html <<< Metal Halides (this is one) have a good reputation, unfortunately even though this series Exo Terra Metal Halides globe are cheap , the special fittings needed to drive them are VERY EXPENSIVE. ( a ExoTerra 50W MHG + ExoTerra MHG FIXTURE will set you back $350 - $400 here in Australia , so I can't see many keepers of beardies anywhere using these irrespective of how good they might be. )

That's all. They got ReptiGlo 5.0 in stores, I saw it but that's the bigger I saw. Ofc they got those expensive ones that I listed above. Yes, you don't understand Romanian but their names are in the links so you can get a clue of a good one, probably something you use too.

I can't separate the adults now, probably in few weeks due to incapability of buying a new viv. I'm going to change their UVB bulb too, but tell me with which one listed above, except the expensive one (80$). Also keep in mind that in the adults viv I'm using a Terra Ceramic 150W


Are you handy with timber and power tools?
..... pretty easy to build a couple of 4x2x2 vivs that can set up one stacked on top the other , both with sliding glass front doors in a weekend.... plenty of plans for these on the net , and even here.

Built from 0.5in thick plywood, couldn't be easier , all you need are
2 sheets 2.4m x 1.2m
powerdriver /drill
jigsaw and rotary saw
glue + wood screws
plastic cabinet tracks for sliding glass doors
some wall vents

You aren't limited to buying from local pet shops ,.
...plenty of petshops in other countries such as the UK , France, etc who are more than happy to sell you the gear you need, expecially since most / all countries in Europe run 230VAC 50Hz , so it's only a matter buying appropriate adapter plug to go from UK --> Romania or French --> Romania etc ie http://www.worldstandards.eu/electricit ... y-country/
Romania is 230VAC 50Hz, plugs C/F , same as in Germany, France is same volts AC plugs C/E
UK .
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:15 am

Damn thank you! I found this viewtopic.php?f=75&t=228536. It is the same way the babies' viv was made. I'm going to get the things that I need on Monday because today it is Saturday and most of the building shops in my zone closed (3:09 PM). Really willing to make one viv of this kind.

Thanks again for all the help you provided. About the lights, I found a site in my country that has ReptiSun 10.0 (I read here that it is very good and I can keep the 2.0 too for more light). I purchased two of them and they are going to be in the vivs on Monday night or Tuesday morning.

I will come back with the adults' results from the vet. Also, the stargazer isn't stargazing anymore (2 days already) and he's shedding skin right now.
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Drache613 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:44 pm

Hello,

That's great you have found some Reptisun 10 tubes, they are better than the Reptiglo lights. I have heard of JBL but don't know what the UVB output of them is. They heat & UVB bulbs are mercury vapor bulbs essentially & normally pretty convenient. I wish I knew some meter readings of UVB for you.
You are going to try & build some partitions? That is a good sized so you should be able to be creative & make space for the little ones to have their own areas for awhile.
That is wonderful the little one isn't stargazing anymore. Perhaps he was having some nutritional issues or was dehydrated somewhat.

Keep us posted on them all!

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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:19 am

Any news on the status of the parents from the vet ?
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:35 am

Nope, not yet. I'm going to the vet tomorrow
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Re: one month baby dragon stargazing?

Postby Iamakel » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:17 am

Hey guys, the parents aren't Atadenovirus positive. Also, the stargazing baby hasn't stargated since that day. He's eating enough, pooping and also he started shedding skin (he was the last one who hasn't). If the parents are AV negative, I don't think the babies will be positive..
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