Brumation in June?

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Brumation in June?

Postby JaxonTheSaxon » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:31 pm

Hey internet people,

I have a beardie named Jaxon, he's just over a year old. I have noticed Jaxon becoming more lethargic, with somewhat of a loss of appetite. I don't see any issues with the husbandry tbh. Temperatures, lighting, furniture and overall environment is in great shape. I have a digital temp probe.

He hasn't been poopin on a regular basis since I've noticed this possible brumation period. He really doesn't eat unless I wave food in front of him also. I've tested for dehydration and I'm not 100% sure if he's getting enough water. I try and bathe him a couple of times a week so he has the chance to soak/absorb some H2O. Hes not big on veggies yet.. im throwing out more collard greens than he's eating.

There's no signs of sickness or injuries.. just the lack of energy, appetite, irregular bowl movements; almost none existent unless in warm bath water.. annnd overall laziness.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice it would be greatly appreciated! :banghead:
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JaxonTheSaxon
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby BeardieBoyWonder » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:50 pm

I dont know much about the brumation, but about the laziness. My beardie is similar to what you describe but isnt "lifeless". Do you bathe your bearded dragon for 10 - 15 mins? It can take time for the beardie to get used to the water. Otherwise sounds like hes fine.

If your having trouble enticing your beardie to eat their salad, you should move the salad around and make sure he sees it. Like if it was alive. If thats not the case, then it wont hurt to put an insect in the salad.

You can also try putting color in the salad like sweet peppers or strawberries.

I think laziness is just in my lizards personality btw.
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby BeardieBoyWonder » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:52 pm

Oh, and you probably know this but, when bearded dragons get to adult age, their diet should compose of 75% greens and 25% insects. He looks normal to me!
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:15 pm

JaxonTheSaxon wrote:Hey internet people,

I have a beardie named Jaxon, he's just over a year old. I have noticed Jaxon becoming more lethargic, with somewhat of a loss of appetite. I don't see any issues with the husbandry tbh. Temperatures, lighting, furniture and overall environment is in great shape. I have a digital temp probe.
<<< if you are in the southern hemisphere and you have reducing the photoperiod and heating and he's over 12 months old , he might be going into brumation, I try to keep my beardies going over winter .
I do this by
1) maintaining a long photoperiod similar to the daylight hours they experience in the wild in their natural range ( I run my heat and lights so they are on 6am and off 10pm , ie 16 hrs/day year round)
2) keeping the food coming.
3) ensuring adequate UVA and UVB
4) ensuring proper basking and warm zone temperatures

If you are north of the equator, it's more likely he's just maturing (they become more laid back and lazy as they become subadults) , though it may be that he's no longer getting sufficient UVA and UVB , and your photoperiod may be too short (I believe it's common practice in the USA and Europe to think 12 hrs / day of lights and heat is summer conditions = wrong, if this the photo period you are running I recommend bumping it up by up to 4 hours per day.

At 12 months old , he is still a juvenile and still growing strongly and will not taper off his growth until he's about 2 yrs old and becomes a mature adult.
At 12 months old he will need mostly live insect protein still and will be transitioning to some greens and veg each day as well as his one or two live insect meals (let him eat as many insects as he wants at this age).
I transition my juvenile beardies from 2 live insect meals per day to 1 live insect meal per day at about 1 year old.


Please check your temperatures , and make sure your UV source is still good ( compacts, T8s and T5s UVA and UVB decays over time , it is good policy to replace these every 6 months (unless the quality dictates you can use them for longer (ie Arcadia are such good quality , they are good for 12 months).


He hasn't been poopin on a regular basis since I've noticed this possible brumation period. He really doesn't eat unless I wave food in front of him also. I've tested for dehydration and I'm not 100% sure if he's getting enough water. I try and bathe him a couple of times a week so he has the chance to soak/absorb some H2O.
<<<< Unless he enjoys a nice splash in the bath, you are over doing the bathing , bearded dragons DO NOT NEED bathing UNLESS
>> they have soiled themselves
>> they are too hot
>> they are impacted (a soak in a warm bath with tummy rubs will often help in mild cases of impaction)
>> they have an open injury that needs soaking in dilute betadiene

The only way for a bearded dragon to take on board water is via it's mouth in the live insects , greens and veg it eats or if it takes a drink - it's common myth that they absorb water via their skin or via their bumhole - THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN.

Hes not big on veggies yet.. im throwing out more collard greens than he's eating. <<< normal for a juvenile / subadult - keep offering daily , he'll come to them in his own time.

There's no signs of sickness or injuries.. just the lack of energy, appetite, irregular bowl movements; almost none existent unless in warm bath water.. annnd overall laziness.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice it would be greatly appreciated! :banghead:
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A common mistake is cohabitation (if sharing tank or can see another beardie) , even if he can see another beardie , or a snake or very large lizard ?
Are there other pets (cats, dogs ) in the household ?

And details of your feeding schedule and other husbandry aspects .
Might be a very easy fix .

Photos of the tank and showing substrate and lighting and of the beardies will help too. Use XIMG button to upload photos from your computer.

How heavy is he ?
...... recommend weighing them regularly (weekly say)?

Can you give us a good rundown on the setup and schedules (light and feeding) :
Basking light
........ is it a coloured globe ? (BAD)
........ what is it's wattage ?
........ how far from the basking spot ?

TEMPERATURES ?
>>> daytime
.......warm zone
.......basking spot
...... how are you measuring your temperatures ?
TOO COLD = SLEEPY DRAGON
>>> overnight minimum viv temperatures ?

UVA AND UVB ADEQUATE ?
>>> is the uv rated AT LEAST 10%UVB ?
>>> is it a COMPACT (curly globe & WATTAGE ?
>>> or a T8 tube ?
>>> or a T5 tube ?
>>> or an MVB ?
VERY IMPORTANT : what is the brand ?
(not all UVB compacts and tubes are created equal or as well , many shops sell their own brand (Zilla, All Living Things, Reptile-One, Nat Geo , Natural Selections (in green boxes) which are cheap Chinese clones made very cheaply using very poor quality quartz glass and cheap phosphors ==> very poor UV spectrum produced incl UVC band and bad parts of the UVB band)

>>> also is it covered (in a domestic fluorescent light fitting )? == BAD
>>> also is it sitting ontop a mesh top ? == BAD
>>> how far from basking spot ?
too far and the UVA and UVB WILL BE TOO DILUTE.
UVA FLUX TOO LOW where dragon is ==> a very lethargic dragon w/ a very poor apetite just in the short term , and neurological problems if this persists , not to mention MVB if UVB flux too low long enough with inadequate metabolisation of dietary calcium or inadequate intake out calcium

http://www.arcadia-reptile.com/wp-conte ... dragon.jpg

TANK
>>> size (L x W x H) and construction , photos of the setup are often helpful .

SUBSTRATE ?
>>> is it sand ? == BAD AND IF CALCISAND this is EXTREMELY BAD/LETHAL when ingested
>>> is it particulate ? == BAD

SHARING TANK ? == BAD

TOO SHORT A PHOTOPERIOD (lights are not kept on long enough each day , will make beardie think it is winter , recommend at least 14 HRS PER DAY)

FEEDING SCHEDULE (I recommend at least 2 hrs lights/heat on before first live feed and after last feed of the day)
>>> when are you offering live feeder insects ? what are they ? how big are they ?
>>> when are you offering greens and other veg ? what are you offering ?
good guide is here : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:17 pm

BeardieBoyWonder wrote:Oh, and you probably know this but, when bearded dragons get to adult age, their diet should compose of 75% greens and 25% insects. He looks normal to me!


AT 12 months old , he IS NOT AN ADULT - he's a JUVENILE.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:11 am

See my URGENT PM regarding that CalciSand / woodchips mix and likely hood of lethal impaction ...that mix has to go IMMEDIATELY .

I am not blaming you for using this mix, you were sold it by a pet shop who couldn''t care less about your pet and by staff who know next to nothing about good beardie husbandry and care , and being a Noob beardie keeper, you didn't know this was dangerous.

Please don't hesitate about getting him to a vet for examination and xrays to check for impactions/blockages...

Just in case - no solid foods until you have a vet's clearance - this will add to the problems if he's impacted by calcisand/woodchips ... puréed veggie/calcium/multivitamin mix from the syringe for now , perhaps a very wet mix of Repashi BugPie .... even a very wet sloppy mix of juvenile beardie pellets.

I hope I am wrong and he's not (impacted / blocked up) , but better safe than sorry , time is off the essence . Another keeper here lost his/her beardie to calcisand only a week or two ago.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby JaxonTheSaxon » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:01 pm

I took Jaxon to the vet today and she was given an enema.. yes Jaxon is a she lol! She passed some feces with a very hard urite attached. She didn't pass as much as I had hoped but was given an all okay from the vet. She seems to be doing better. Some stress marks on her belly only when I put her in her habitat. Otherwise she's lively and on the uprise.

I have taken out all of the substrate and replaced with tile.

I really appreciate all of the help I have been given! I have hopefully stopped any further harm to my beardie.
I was actually given the advise to use the calcisand/wood chip mix from a so called "expert" at a well known reptile "sanctuary" called Reptilia. It's located in Vaughn Ontario Canada... I'll be following up with them in regards to an almost lethal impaction.

I strongly urge everyone who owns a reptile not just a bearded dragon to contact companies who make "reptile safe" sand substrate and ask them where they get their facts from because clearly they don't have any in regards to what they are selling as "SAFE SAND SUBSTRATE"[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Brumation in June?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:01 am

Wow !!! isn't a good thing you asked us for help

.... certainly dodged a bullet with the calci-sand and wood substrate ....

To warrant an enema she must have been quite severely impacted / blocked/ bunged up .... vets don't do very risky procedures like giving a lizard an enema unless it's already lifethreatening.

You are very lucky you still have her , a friend of my lost her beardie as a result of getting an enema (vet also pushed the rotting food out her stomach by hand, and pumped her stomach full of water under pressure to try to push any remaining blockages through to the rear end , went in with a lively but blackbearding beardie who was otherwise apparently healthy, come home that afternoon with a very cold limp and very sick beardie who still was blackbearding and who died within a few hours of the vet visit...this vet claimed he was an expert on reptiles who had worked previously in a zoo ... so keep a very close eye on Jaxon , should be fine, but be aware enemas and other intrusive / traumatic / hyperstressful procedures used to deal with serious impactions are in themselves lifethreateningly dangerous .

Hopefully Jaxon will be none the worse for the experience ....

I'd be keeping some olive oil and a small (1 ml) syringe handy , and maybe some apple sauce and prune juice , just in case ,and keeping her warmer than 28oC 24/7 for the next couple of days just in case.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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