What is wrong with my bearded dragon? MBD? Something else?

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My BD is about 2 and a half years old always been full of life , loved her food, loved playing outside her viv and now all of a sudden the past 2 months she is like a completely different dragon!
She has gone completely off her veg, can't get any into her at all! She will only eat very little bugs a day, very quiet and lethargic , it isn't constantly like this though some days she's full of life. I noticed her two back legs Are a little swollen this past week and they seem to be bent under herself when I put her down, she seems to be walking "ok" on them at the moment ,she does have a vet appointment booked for the end of the week but I am worried now by how quickly her legs have seemed to swell and the way she holds them and worried that the vet appointment is too long to wait as I don't want her getting any worse!
She's in a 4 foot viv, with a reptisun 10.0 uvb bulb with a 100w basking bulb I have a thermostat in there to ensure temps stay consistent and I replace the uvb bulb every 6 months.
I am very concerned about this little one as she's not her self at all, and her back legs are really concerning me. If any one knows at all what this could be or if it is a start of MBD what I can do to help stop the symptoms worsen until vet appointment?
I have read and done my research about MBD before having a bearded dragon and I've seen how horrific it can be for them, but how long does it take for it to get that bad and if it is MBD starting with her is it to late to fix?
I appreciate all help I received as I just want my little bonnie Back to herself again
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
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Possibly something in the digestive tract pushing on the spine. It could also be a leg shed causing swelling and constricting the skin on the legs. As far as MBD goes, Is the UVB light a T8 or T5? How far is it from the basking area? Type and distance as well as age factor into the amount of UVB received which plays directly into digestive health and nutrient absorption.

Can you post some photos of her and her setup? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them to your thread using the XIMG button.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
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She looks quite healthy if not slightly overweight from those photos. Her tail looks like it might be going into shed. I don't see outward signs of MBD but an x-ray would show bone density which is helpful for diagnosing that. Your setup looks quite nice. I would replace the wood chip substrate with something solid though. Maybe non adhesive shelf liner or even some fleece if she prefers a softer substrate. You have a T8 UVB light without a reflector but it looks like she can get close to it if she wants to. Moving to a T5 might be better in that enclosure but would need about 10-12'' of clearance above the basking areas. I wish I had something more conclusive for you but outwardly I don't see signs of a problem. I've uploaded your photos so others can take a look and provide their thoughts as well.

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She may have egg binding. Has she ever laid eggs? They may be stuck. This is a very serious condition and she should be checked out right away. More information below. I believe the first step to eliminating this an an option would be to feel her stomach for "bumps" which are the eggs inside.

I'm not sure if this is available at other vets, but if I am freaking out I can give my vet a call and he will call me back between appointments to talk it out. If your vet doesn't offer this service, feel free to try calling my vet Companion Animal Clinic in Blacksburg and see if either Dr. Gallagher or Dr. McCormick who both specialize in reptiles can help. You can say that I referred you for emergency help.
540-552-6800

http://pogopogona.com/caring-for-bearded-dragons/egg-binding-bearded-dragons
 

Bonniethebeardie

Member
Original Poster
Thank you all for your replies,
I'm pretty sure she isn't egg binding as when i gave her a bath earlier her stomach feels soft, no bumps or lumps at all, I will definitely call my vets up in the morning and get more information on that though! Thank you.
And as far as the substrate I will definitely take her off the wood chippings if they ain't suitable for her, I'll probably use fleece on the bottom of the viv!
She weights around 400g is this normal for a female bearded dragon at 2 years old?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
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I would think 400g is a bit small for an adult but based on the photos she looks to be a healthy size which is important. Has her weight been steady at 400g? A vet visit is a good idea since you're concerned. If you have an experienced reptile vet they may be able to provide you with some better info after doing an in person exam than we can via photos. They can check for both bone density issues and bound eggs (fairly easily with experience).
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

The main thing I can see is the tube bulb doesn't have a fixture around it which greatly diminishes the UVB exposure. It is mounted directly overhead but without a fixture, the UVB refracts all directions instead of focusing downward more towards her. Can you get a light fixture with a reflective backing on it? Or as suggested, upgrading to a T5 high output tube bulb would be terrific for that sized tank.
How often do you give calcium? Even as an adult she still needs calcium several times per week to help maintain bone structure. Her foot bending like that is suspicious for metabolic bone disease starting, as well as some swelling. Gout is another possibility, but doesn't seem near as likely.
I would change the substrate though, to a solid one just in case it could be impaction.

Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
 

Coda

Member
Is she feeling any better? Just wanted to mention my 3 year old girl started showing these same exact symptoms (going off veggies, swelling in limbs, also blood in stool) a few months ago, I thought it was gout. Turns out it was eggs and she went into follicular stasis. I didn't notice any change in her weight or feel anything like eggs, and the vet didn't either we only saw the eggs on xray. I would recommend not taking any chances and taking her in for xrays if you haven't yet as this can be very serious.
 

Bonniethebeardie

Member
Original Poster
Hi all, I took bonnie to the vets, to be honest with you I wasn't happy with the response at all the vet said to me "her legs seem fine , by the way she's a male" and more or less pushed me out the door.
So yeah Bonnie is in fact a boy and i still have no idea what is wrong with her/him! (Habit saying her)!

There is something definitely wrong with her back legs as it's just getting worse! She is more or less just dragging the back one now!

She won't eat any veggies but I've bought some baby food (I read somewhere you can feed it to them if they won't eat) and I mix in some vitamin and D3 powder in it and feed that to her as well as her worms.
I've also changed her substrate to plain repti carpet for now.
If anyone can give me any advise on what I can do to stop the symptoms worsening i would deeply appreciate it!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience + wasted money on that vet. I do believe as drache said that this is probably related to calcium deficiency. The uvb is probably not really reaching where she basks . Be sure to offer calcium on her food and also get her out in the sun....just sit in the grass with her or but/build an outdoor pen. The sun can reverse mild MBD better than anything.

If you want me to sex Bonnie, just post pics with her tail arched high in the air while she is on a flat surface. Think of a dog with it's tail straight up when it's excited, that's how you need to pose her tail , then take a few pics of her rear end.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

So, Bonnie is a male & the vet was sure about that? At the very least they should have done a blood test or x-rays to determine bone density/mass, or a possible obstruction, etc. A blood test would reveal uric acid levels along with calcium to phosphorus ratios, too & would help diagnose gout. Is there possibly another vet you could check into to get a blood test done?
Have you replaced the wood chips in his tank?
I do think that the tube bulb needs to have a fixture around it though, to help direct the UVB downward. I don't think he is getting enough exposure so he can't absorb his calcium properly.
This is a fairly common occurrence, too. Maybe you could consider placing him on liquid calcium for awhile also.
There are the high output T5 tube bulbs that are terrific which you could consider, also.

Tracie
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I take it that vet wasn't a certified Reptile vet...uhg. I wouldn't trust that vet to sex your beardie at all. Please post a photo of her from behind with her tail pulled upward and arched as far over her back towards her head as possible, with her vent and the area above it visible, then we can definitely sex her correctly.

I say this because it sounds just like egg binding to me, and I can't believe they didn't do an x-ray. Your beardie needs a simple, plain flat x-ray, as it will not only rule egg-binding in or out (just because you don't feel eggs means nothing), but a simple flat x-ray will also show if she has MBD, and it will also show if she's impacted, which can also cause weakness in the extremities and partial paralysis. Blood work in combination would be great, but seriously, she just needs a simple x-ray to diagnose several things. I would be finding a certified Reptile vet immediately and getting her there for an x-ray.

For now, ease post the photo so we can confirm the sex.
 

Bonniethebeardie

Member
Original Poster
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Hey guys, are those pictures okay? I wasn't sure how else to take it.. there's two there of the underneath of Bonnie
One on his/her foot the wrong way as I put her down
And I'm unsure if you can see but in the red circle there seems to be a bite/lump on the ankle ? The foot that is effected .
I'm sorry I live in the U.K. And I'm trying to find items that match what your telling me over here. Such as a t5 tube

I have changed her substrate and just to clarify she isn't walking on that like that at all times it's only if she's put down . She's also off her food at the moment but I'm dripping her face with calcium powder mixed with water to keep her hydrated and having calcium.
Thank you all so much for you help and support!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
It does look like a girl, but sometimes a shadow or patch of unshed skin [ in these pics, it's unshed skin ] make it hard to tell because they create an illusion of something being there.

So to be more sure, try a few more pics with the tail up but twist to the side gently. Try thiis, too.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=209431

The foot looks like a minor irriation, raw honey [ unpasteurized ] is an excellent antimicrobial and will probably help so dilute some with a tiny bit of warm water [ don't heat the honey ] and apply the mix around that joint. Just be sure there are no loose bugs in the tank ! EDIT.....as I looked at the foot in the pic where it's bent back, is there a strip of skin going around causing indentation ? It kind of looks like it.
 
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