8 yr old beardie sick please help!

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8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Thu May 18, 2017 5:04 pm

Hi my names alexis my bearded dragon Lucian is 8 years old has lost his appetite we recently moved to a new house and switched his lights he all the sudden became very sick he was ok before not as active as his young self of course but still active and eating and drinking now he barely moves around and hasn't eaten in two or three days I went to the store got him some freeze dryed crickets and baby food butternut squash because he use to love it I smashed the crickets to powder and mixed with the squash force fed him slowly with a syringe he still had fight in him and had his eyes open the whole time but his head fontanels are sunken his hips too I'm devastated and heart broken please someone help any suggestions what else to feed and what type of pedylyte to give I'm scared to hurt him and don't want him any worse 😔
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby AHBD » Thu May 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Hi Alexis, I'm sorry about your boy Lucian. Can you post a few pics of him and of his tank set up ? Here's how to post pics :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload pics

If he's 8 years old and always been healthy you must have taken good care of him ! What exact brand and watt lights are you using, is it possible that it somehow got too hot ?
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm

He is my baby I took really good care of him always had him sense he was as small as my pinky that's why this is so devastating I feel his tank wasn't hot enough I went through a hardship and didn't have enough money when his lights broke and I couldn't afford the expensive lights he use to have and now I extremely regret it because now he's sick I feel like it's all my fault 😢 But today I bought the old lights and force fed him with a syringe and he moved a little he's opened his eyes more and actually walked to his water dish to drink what I'm worried about is he's very bloated like his tummy is pretty big I dunno if it's because he drank a lot of water or what I'm worried 😔 I just wish I knew what pedilyte to feed him and what other baby food to give so I can fatten him up and get him healthy again he should have 5 more years left his cage is a 100 gal lights are 150 watt he's on sand has a heat rock and a climbing stick to get closer to light if need be and a sleeping log to sleep under. I'll try and post a pic
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:03 pm

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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Thu May 18, 2017 7:03 pm

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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu May 18, 2017 9:12 pm

Sorry your old boy is so ill .

Looking at the photos you posted of him and his tank I have to make a few comments (I am not going to say these things to you to be nasty , but your old boy is a such a bad way IMO that pussyfooting about this will not do him any good , time to talk turkey to you )
-
1) I can see his ribs showing, skinny tail and sunken skull depressions where heavy beardies nice fat pads ....he's in terrible condition - this doesn't happen overnight or even over a period of a few days or weeks , it takes severals months of starvation to get a bearded dragon so emaciated. :angry5: :(
Only time I've seen a beardie in such a poor state was during a very long drought (had not rained for several years) and it was a near dead wild bearded dragon.

2) I can see sand in his tank ---- PLEASE PLEASE DON"T TELL ME ITS CALCISAND. :(

3) red glow in the tank --- obvious issues with the lighting.

I think he is EXTREMELY ILL and THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY that you get him to a good experienced herp certified vet IMMEDIATELY, failure to do will is likely to cost him his life. Could be anything from major impaction , to severe malnutrition , severe dehydration , cancer , paracites, vitamin deficiencies - would only be guessing. He is beyond home remedies , he need urgent vet intensive care to get him past this.

I''m going to tell you right here that if you are not able to provide this beardie with proper care and are not willing to pay to have a vet treat him , you need to surrender him to a reptile rescuer , this for him is now a matter of live or a miserable long drawn out death.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri May 19, 2017 1:39 am, edited 8 times in total.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu May 18, 2017 9:28 pm

When you have had a vet assess him .

To help us diagnose this we need very detailed information about the current setup, the diet, , feeding schedule and other husbandry aspects .
Might be a very easy fix .


How heavy is he?
...... are you weighing him regularly (weekly say)?

Can you give us a good rundown on the setup and schedules (light and feeding) :


... TEMPERATURES ?
........daytime warm zone
........overnight
........basking spot
........ how are you measuring your temperatures ?
TOO COLD = SLEEPY DRAGON

... UVA AND UVB ADEQUATE ?
........is the uv rated AT LEAST 10%UVB ?
........COMPACT & WATTAGE ?
>>>> if the second dome has a compact UVB in it, what brand is it (THIS IS CRUCIAL as many shops sell home brand compacts and T8s and T5s which are made on the cheap in china which have very poor quality quartz glass and very cheap phosphores which result in the emission of a very bad UV spectrum (incl UVC and very high UVB) and these are harmful to sun worshipping lizards like bearded dragons).
or T8 ?
or T5 ?
OR MVB ?

........is it covered ? == BAD
........is it sitting ontop a mesh top ? == BAD
........how far from basking spot ? too far and the UVA and UVB WILL BE TOO DILUTE.
........UVA FLUX TOO LOW where dragon is ==> a very lethargic dragon w/ a very poor apetite just in the short term ,
and neurological problems if this persists , not to mention MVB if UVB flux too low long enough with inadequate metabolisation of dietary calcium or inadequate intake out calcium


I can see an overpowering red glow - red coloured basking globe or "infrared" bulb are NOT suitable for bearded dragons , he needs either
>>> a good MVB
>>>or a good par38 incandescent clear colourless spotglobe
>>>or a good par38 clear colourless halogen spotglobe
throw the red coloured globe in the bin.

... TANK
....... size (L x W x H) and construction , photos of the setup are often helpful .

... SUBSTRATE ?
........ sand == BAD AND IF CALCISAND EXTREMELY BAD/LETHAL

... TOO SHORT A PHOTOPERIOD (lights are not kept on long enough each day , will make beardie think it is winter , recommend at least 14 HRS PER DAY)

... FEEDING SCHEDULE (I recommend at least 2 hrs lights/heat on before first live feed and after last feed of the day)
....... when are you offering live feeder insects ? what are they ? how big are they ?
>>> you seem to be saying he has not been getting any live insects at all for a long time ?
....... when are you offering greens and other veg ? what are you offering ?

... What season is it (there where you live)

and

... weather can have an impact on your beardie's behavior, so what had the weather been like in the problem period ?
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:38 am

I have been offering him romaine lettuce for weeks because it was his favorite and he would eat it but he was only eating a certain amount I figured it was just normal because sometimes he did that then I would give him cooked butternut squash and very large crickets and large meal worms ever so often a giant roach and some silk worms but he started to only eat meal worms then he wanted no meal worms and only romaine lettuce I figured he was eating because the lettuce would be gone when I got home I work 12 hr shifts sometimes 24 because of my profession and trust me this is very upsetting to me that he's in this bad of shape he was being taken care of by my nephew and when they told me he wasn't moveing and such I took over and now I have this situation so please keep the anger and rude comments away this wasn't intentional I love this lizard very much and the red light I just bought it's a 150 watt he use to do very well with this light he kept him nice and warm and happy at night his day light is a 100 watt basking bulb again he always did well with these so I don't think it's the lights I think sense I was able to buy the red light he is doing better he has moved more then before even drank water and has been opening his eyes I am right now feeding him baby food butternut squash mixed with mashed crickets if anyone could tell me what type of pedialyte to give him and or any other foods I could moosh and feed id be super appreciative and if I need specific lights let me know also please let me know what to change for the bottom of his tank I went to a speciality store they told me this sand stuff so I'll take any suggestions I had him on lizard carpet before but I couldn't find one that would fit his tank thanks also it's summer here but where I live has been pretty cold lately but I have a heat rock for him in the cage and the night light on for heat
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby traildrifterphalanx » Fri May 19, 2017 9:23 am

I'm really sorry to see your dragon in this condition, and by no means do I want to kick you while you're down, but he looks very emaciated. You stated he hasn't eating in a few days... the way he looks is as though he hasn't eaten in months..
His fat stores, as mentioned, are completely depleted, and this would take months to occur. For comparison reasons, I lost my 2yr old dragon recently from cancer. She was not willing to eat on her own for 2 whole months prior to her passing, but even though I was providing her baby food, her fat pads on her head and tail were full.

He needs to see a vet pronto, and there appears to be husbandry changes needing to be made immediately along with diet changes, but in an effort to not, as mentioned, kick you while you're down, please get him scheduled to see a vet as your first step to assist getting some fluids into him and assess if there may be an underlying reason for his condition.
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 19, 2017 8:38 pm

Lexielu182 wrote:I have been offering him romaine lettuce for weeks because it was his favorite and he would eat it but he was only eating a certain amount I figured it was just normal because sometimes he did that then I would give him cooked butternut squash and very large crickets and large meal worms ever so often a giant roach and some silk worms but he started to only eat meal worms then he wanted no meal worms and only romaine lettuce I figured he was eating because the lettuce would be gone when I got home I work 12 hr shifts sometimes 24 because of my profession and trust me this is very upsetting to me that he's in this bad of shape he was being taken care of by my nephew and when they told me he wasn't moveing and such I took over and now I have this situation so please keep the anger and rude comments away this wasn't intentional I love this lizard very much and the red light I just bought it's a 150 watt he use to do very well with this light he kept him nice and warm and happy at night his day light is a 100 watt basking bulb again
<<<< for starters - throw that rubbish red light globe in the bin , get rid of it , never use ever again --- PERIOD .... for nighttime if it's cold in the room where he is you need a heat source that gives off no light / glow at all , ie a ceramic heat emitter , and you need it controlled by a switching thermostat (OK to set it to the desired nighttime temperature and forget it - let it run 24/7, the tank will be warmed by the basking light during the daytime and the thermostat will automatically turn off the CHE if it's warmer than the thermostat's setpoint).

You mention a red heat globe and a basking globe ---- no mention of a UVA / UVB source AT ALL.

PLEASE ANSWER MY PREVIOUS QUESTIONS - IN DETAIL .

12hr shifts is NO EXCUSE for such poor husbandry of this beardie who is 100% dependent and reliant on you for all it's needs.
I know lots of people who work long hours (many of whom are working double shifts (16 hr days) most days and yet they still manage to give their pet lizards and snakes great care and lots of love.

If you think you don't have time to care for this poor beardie you MUST surrender it to a reptile rescuer as it is in such a poor state NOW that ONLY INTENSIVE CARE WILL SAFE IT'S LIFE. Saving it's life and rehabilitating it will a long and expensive process and you must do this under vet guidance.

By intensive care I mean buying Oxbow Critical Care for Carnivores and HerpaBoost and feeding it liquid slurries of these using a proper feeding syringe and a feeding needle (likely directly down it's throat into it's stomach probably as 3 or 4 small meals per day ( it wont handle a full sized meal in one hit ).

This is the gear you need and how to use it to force feed your bearded dragon directly into it's stomach viewtopic.php?f=45&t=232687 ask the vet to demonstrate this technique to you and teach you how to do it .

It's WELL AND TRUELY past the stage where it can handle solid foods of any kind (it's organs = kidneys , liver, etc will all be shutting down as it's NOW close to death.

I'm not kidding you, these are the facts and you need to man up and accept these and make very important decisions , including NOT WAITING FOR A VET APPOINT (TO BE FIT IN by a vet when it suits their schedule) and when it is convenient to you.

You will also have to start giving it herp vitamins in liquid form and CalciVet solution each day orally by syringe.

FORCE FEEDING OF SPECIAL HIGH POTENCY LIQUID FOODS AND SLURRIES MADE FOR CRITICALLY ILL REPTILES WILL HAVE TO GO ON FOR SEVERAL MONTHS just to get this poor beardie into anything remotely approaching good physical condition, it took several months of starvation and neglect to get it to the state it's in and it will likely take as long before it's healthy and strong again.

Are YOU PREPARED TO COMMIT TO THAT ? If not , surrender the bearded dragon a competent reptile rescue organization and they will turn heaven and earth to save this bearded dragon's life and to rehabilitate it before rehoming it with a more suitable carer for the rest of it's life.


he always did well with these so I don't think it's the lights I think sense I was able to buy the red light he is doing better he has moved more then before even drank water and has been opening his eyes I am right now feeding him baby food butternut squash mixed with mashed crickets if anyone could tell me what type of pedialyte to give him and or any other foods I could moosh and feed id be super appreciative <<<< he is well past the point where cheap home remedies will help him

and if I need specific lights let me know also please let me know what to change for the bottom of his tank I went to a speciality store they told me this sand stuff <<<< ditch the sand , put down a couple of layers of kitchen grade absorbant paper toweling .



LIGHTS :

UV = AT THE VERY LEAST a T5 10% UVB tube in a reflector hood (not a rubbish shop brand , get either an Arcadia , Exo Terra or Zoo Med uvb tube).
Run it 16 hours per day.

LIGHT & HEAT during the day = a good colourless basking light that creates a basking spot temperature about 40degC and a warm zone about 30degC.
Run it 16 hours per day unless it is expected to be heatwave conditions (no basking light on very hot days, if the basking light IS NOT A MVB , you can set up a switching thermostat to turn it off if the temperature at basking spot is hotter than say 42degC.)

NIGHT HEAT = he is such a poor state he needs to be kept warm 24/7 , so a CHE on a switching thermostat , set it to keep him at about 26-28 degC overnight.


so I'll take any suggestions I had him on lizard carpet before but I couldn't find one that would fit his tank thanks also it's summer here but where I live has been pretty cold lately but I have a heat rock for him in the cage <<< throw the heat rock in the bin, or unplug it and throw the power cord away , heat rocks have a very bad reputation for overheating and burning reptiles.

and the night light on for heat



IF YOU REALLY LOVE THIS BEARDIE you should turn off the computer , pick up the phone , call the vet and TELL THEM YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY IN WITH A CRITICALLY ILL BEARDIE - THIS IS A EMERGENCY , if you were as sick you or someone in your family or a friend were as sick as this beardie is , you wouldn't hesitate to get yourself or them to the ER at the nearest hospital. NO MORE PROCASTINATION , NO MORE WAITING , DO IT RIGHT NOW.

FOODS RECOMMENDED for when the bearded dragon is able to actually handle solid foods (HE IS NOT ABLE TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW AT ALL) http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html

Romaine lettuce is worthless as a food for a lizard, NEVER GIVE IT TO THIS DRAGON EVER AGAIN.

Insects :
I recommend ONLY
>> 2/3 size gutloaded crickets or similar sized roaches or locusts ( ... but this beardie will not cope with these now because it's in such a poor state)
>> silkworms (medium size = 2inches long) to large
>> SOFT BODIED worms (only because he needs building up and the energy in them - wax worms)

NO MEALWORMS , NO SUPERWORMS, he can't handle their hard exoskeletons.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Drache613 » Fri May 19, 2017 9:29 pm

This thread is being watched & monitored. Please be more courteous with your responses. There is no excuse for being rude, it only makes the person feel worse & may scare them off from coming back for help at all. We are here to help the dragon, so exercise some empathy.
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Drache613 » Fri May 19, 2017 9:33 pm

Hello,

I am sorry that your dragon was not taken care of by your nephew & things got out of control.
Are you able to get him in to see a vet immediately?
For now, until you can get him into a vets, I wouldn't recommend feeding any solid foods or any protein right now. Feed only soft foods such as squash baby food, sweet potato baby food, blended greens, etc. You can use any flavor you would like when it comes to the Pedialyte, to use for him.
His fat pads on his head are depleted so that is why I suggested no protein because his kidneys may not be 100% at all. He needs at least 3-4 feedings daily, broken up so he can digest better.
Do remove the sand & place him on paper towels, or a nice big soft towel that you can launder frequently for now.
We will need to review the tank setup, etc with you, but for now, try to focus on getting him hydrated right now & into a vets for further care.

Let us know how he is doing.

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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri May 19, 2017 10:12 pm

stepping back from this one -- I hope you can save your dragon and rehabilitate it. good luck.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Lexielu182 » Sat May 20, 2017 11:12 am

Thank you for the info I am going to go buy new light set up but just for your info they are Uv bulbs I'll have to look at the boxes and see exactly everything it is but they were 20 something dollars a piece so they aren't cheap useless bulbs took him off sand he's on a towel now I been doing warm baths and propping his head on a towel to help him also feeding him butternut squash and smashed crickets with calcium and vitamins and pedialyte via syringe he is doing a little better he is still mobile and able to move and after his 3rd feeding he started to fight me to eat which I like to see because it tells me he's in for the fight and so am I to get him better he has a vet appt tomorrow what this unprofessional ignorant person above seems to not understand is I gave my lizard to a family member to take care of while working long hours and it didn't get done and I was only notified of his condition when it got this bad so It would be appreciated if he would leave his rude comments to himself maybe step back and try seeing it from my perspective this kills me to see something I love this far gone I got him to 8 years buddy didn't do that starving him a whole 8 years and treating him poorly I loved and cared for him unfortunately the care I left him to didn't but I'm trying to fix it the best of my ability and hopefully with people's help and boy judgement bs comments I can do so.
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Re: 8 yr old beardie sick please help!

Postby Drache613 » Sat May 20, 2017 2:33 pm

Hello,

How is your boy today, any improvements?
Could you look at the base of the tube bulb & let us know the make & model & UVB % stamped on the bulb? Unfortunately, not all UVB lamps are created equal & some don't put out much UVB at all.
How close to him is the bulb & is it mounted beside the basking light?
I'm glad you put him on a towel in his tank right now, to avoid impaction issues.
That's great he seems to be doing a little better today & is eating some, too. That's a very good sign he started to fight you on the feeding also. Did he like the butternut squash then? You can also add in sweet potato too or rotate them, as they have starches & will help with weight gain.
I am sorry your dragon had to undergo that treatment at your nephew's home. I really hope he pulls through for you.
Keep us posted on him & let us know how things go at the vets tomorrow!

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