Help: Possible fatty liver disease - Prescribed antibiotics?

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

It definitely would be great if I could see a copy of her blood tests.
It is a possibility she could be developing follicles also which can sometimes cause marked decreases in appetite & changes in behavior.
Did the vet see a high white cell count to justify giving the Baytril?
The lactulose is routinely prescribed for liver issues, namely fatty liver. How long did he want her on the lactulose?
She doesn't look like she has had any weight issues, but has stopped eating so giving some of the critical care is fine. You can mix it just until it thins out so it isn't too thick to where she chokes on it. Did she take the entire 10mls?
Before she stopped eating, how many insects was she eating weekly?
What is her supplementation schedule like?

I hope Lizzy is feeling better soon.

Tracie
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":3dysoz90 said:
Hello,

It definitely would be great if I could see a copy of her blood tests.
It is a possibility she could be developing follicles also which can sometimes cause marked decreases in appetite & changes in behavior.
Did the vet see a high white cell count to justify giving the Baytril?
The lactulose is routinely prescribed for liver issues, namely fatty liver. How long did he want her on the lactulose?
She doesn't look like she has had any weight issues, but has stopped eating so giving some of the critical care is fine. You can mix it just until it thins out so it isn't too thick to where she chokes on it. Did she take the entire 10mls?
Before she stopped eating, how many insects was she eating weekly?
What is her supplementation schedule like?

I hope Lizzy is feeling better soon.

Tracie

Hello Tracie,

Thank you for taking the time to help me. I have emailed my vet and requested the x-rays and blood tests. As soon as I get them I will email them to you.

I had been told to give .28Ml of the Lactulose every 24 hours hours until the bottle is empty. The prescription was for 10GM/15ML, and I'm sorry I'm not sure how to do the math on that.

She took almost 10Mls yesterday of the Critcal Care, but I used too much water so I still had some left I couldn't get her to eat. I will try to get the
mix better today so I can hopefully get her to eat it all.

Supplementation schedule: I was lightly dusting bugs and salad with ZooMed Repti Calcium Without D3 daily and dusting bugs twice a week with Rep-Cal Herptivite.

As far as feeders go she's has been fed primarily dubia roaches/phoenix worms/superworms and occasionally hornworms. The amounts have not been that consistent because I always followed the "as much as they will eat in 15 min" rule and she always seemed to stop when she was full. It was never a crazy amount.

However once winter started she slowed down on eating bugs, she had also gotten older etc. so I was not concerned. So for quite awhile now it has been 1 or 2 decent size roaches and 2 superworms or 10-20 phoenix worms
per day. Some days she would refuse roaches, so she would just get 2 or 3 supers or the 10-20 phoenix worms.

Also I never dusted the phoenix worms with calcium. Just vitamins if she
was eating them on "vitamin day" ...

Thanks again Tracie... I look forward to hearing from you.

--Craig
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Craigh,

How is Lizzy doing today, has she been basking well?
I sent an email to you also.
Did the vet want her getting critical care daily? If she is maintaining her weight, 10mls is quite a bit of food so you could consider decreasing that & or feeding every other day. Be sure you feed her with the syringe in from the side of her mouth to avoid aspirating. Is she still coughing some?
I will wait to see the blood test results & x-rays so I can see the values first.
You are sure Lizzy is female?
Has she brumated or just slown down some? At her age, it's recommended to only have 20-30% protein max so we usually say to limit their protein to a 40-50 weekly amount. The rest of the diet comprises of vegetation, if you are lucky! LOL
It appears that he dosed her on the lactulose so hopefully it will help out.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":pn1xu4ka said:
Hello Craigh,

How is Lizzy doing today, has she been basking well?
I sent an email to you also.
Did the vet want her getting critical care daily? If she is maintaining her weight, 10mls is quite a bit of food so you could consider decreasing that & or feeding every other day. Be sure you feed her with the syringe in from the side of her mouth to avoid aspirating. Is she still coughing some?
I will wait to see the blood test results & x-rays so I can see the values first.
You are sure Lizzy is female?
Has she brumated or just slown down some? At her age, it's recommended to only have 20-30% protein max so we usually say to limit their protein to a 40-50 weekly amount. The rest of the diet comprises of vegetation, if you are lucky! LOL
It appears that he dosed her on the lactulose so hopefully it will help out.

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

Hello Tracie,

Great to hear from you. I'll be responding to your email here soon if you have time I hope.

Lizzie has been doing really well today. She has been basking great and out a lot and she has been really active. She had a good poo in the morning and another mainly liquid and urate later in the evening.

She still was not interested in a hornworm though his morning nor her salad of dandelion greens. :/

The vet told me half a table spoon of Critical Care Herbavore spread out among 4 feedings a day. Problem is I have to mix it will so much water to make sure she does not choke. I'm having a hard time getting her to eat it all. For the Critical Care I have been just dripping on her nose, waiting for her to start licking and drip as much as I can slowly until she runs off ... rinse and repeat.

Keeps me at it most of the day, but the vet said I need to keep her liver working and processing with the Lactulose to cleanse the liver etc. I believe I have read that here as well.

I am not sure if Lizzy is female, just that the vet said "she appeared to be a girl" but he never made me feel confident. I'll email you pics later if I can or tomorrow. I am wanting to know for sure as well.

Like I say I will email soon. Thanks Tracie!

--Craig
 

Ashleymthornton1990

Hatchling Member
I just got done feeding my rescue critical care. I mixed 1 tbsp of critical care to 2 tbsp of water. You can keep the mixture for up to 24 hours. Using a syringe is the best way. The mixture needs to be warm when feeding your beardie. What I did was fill up my syringe and run it under hot water for a minute and that heated up the mixture. My rescue didn't want to eat actual food for awhile while being on the critical care. I'm not sure if it's because it made her full. But once she was taken off she started eating her live prey and veggies.
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Thanks Ashley, that does give me some hope. One last quick question before I have to give her the next antibiotic dose:

Should I be shooting the meds in from the side of the mouth or the front of the mouth? I just did some googling and there seems to be a lot of contradictory information out there about which method has the potential to aspirate them, and I definitely don't want that! Please help. Thanks again for everything!

--Craig
 

Ashleymthornton1990

Hatchling Member
The side of the mouth is the best option because it doesn't force it down there throat. But with my rescue I had to give it to her in the front of her mouth. Don't push hard on the plunger and let it slowly leak out. what I did was take the syringe and gently pushed her lower lip down (so that her jaw remained closed) and squeeze a few drops in her mouth which she then would lick up. Mind you this can get a little messy so put a towel down. It can be very time consuming. About 30 to 45 min. When I first rescued my Lizzy she had no color 17inches and weighed under 100 grams. She couldn't even lift her head up and we thought her back legs were not functional. We didn't think she would survive. After her first does of critical care 3ml she was able to lift her head and she managed to take 2 steps with her back legs. I fed her 3 to 4 ml twice a day for 5 days. And on day 6 and 7 she was up to 5ml twice a day. I took her back to the vet exactly a week later and she had regained full use of her legs and weighed in at 300 grams. She no longer needs her critical care. She is a ball of energy and eats a full dish of veggies every day and her live prey twice a week.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Yes, definitely give the food from the syringe through the side of the mouth to more easily avoid aspiration.
I am happy that she had a good day today!
That's great she was out basking for most of the day & has been really active, too. I am sure her urates are more runny due to all of the lactulose & the liquid diet. Just do your best with getting the critical care into her. She may not want all 10mls so just go by how she takes it.

Keep us posted on her.
Tracie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Craig, good to hear that she's still doing reasonably well. :) Be sure to get the blood test results and post them here. The Critical Care needs only to be given 1-2X a day, not 4. One thing to remember with animals is that the more we try to force something on them, the more stressful it becomes and then the more reluctant they are to eat or cooperate with anything.

Just gently pull the side of her lip down and slowly syringe it in to her. Another thing you can do is try to find some type of low sugar natural fruit juice or supplement that she actually likes and mix that with the C. Care. It will go much easier for you + for her if she willingly takes the food.

And when you have time, post a few pics of her rear end with her tail in the air like I described and I can probably tell you if she really is a female.
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Thanks everyone! The antibiotics went a little smother from the side of the mouth this morning but still horrible. I just don't know if I should be giving hem to her at all and it sucks. Hoping my Vet complies and gets me her x-rays and blood tests today so you guys can take a look.

Tracie: I replied to your email if you have a chance to take a look.

She is up on her basking spot right now standing tall and strong so that's good. Going to feed her some Critical Care soon.

I will get pics so you guys can help me sex "her" today as soon as I can.

--Neuro
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Hello Everyone,

I did get the blood test and x-ray from my vet, I have sent them to Tracie and here soon once I am done with work I will figure out how to post them here (one is a .pdf). I did want to get you guys the pics so you can help me sex "her" ... looking at the pics, I am guessing that she truly is a girl ... but I want everyone here's expert opinion... Thanks!

91855-3747266522.jpg

91855-28055623.jpg

Please let me know and thanks for all of your help, you are all amazing people! :)

--Craig
 

Neuro

Member
Original Poster
Hello Everyone,

I am still working with Tracie on all of this, but she asked me a question regarding the MegaRay UVB bulb that I am using. Has anyone had any experience with too much UVB exposure?

I am curious if that could cause all of these elevated levels in her liver? While I am waiting for Tracie's response to my email I thought I would ask the question here.

Here are her blood tests:

91855-4358360949.jpg

I have a T5 HO Reptisun 24w Bulb that I have never used and I can easily convert her enclosure over to a normal halogen basking bulb and the T5 Reptisun bulb and ditch the MegaRay. I already have a fixture that sits over her screen top, about 3 inches above it actually that I just have a normal florescent bulb in just to give the enclosure more light. So I could re purpose this fixture for UVB and move the tank down (it is mounted on the wall behind/above the tank) to get the fixture closer to her basking spot as I have seen other setups. Thoughts?

I just don't want to risk messing her up more than she already is. Thanks again everyone!

-- Craig
 
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