Fatten up+General improvements.

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Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby TadCooper97 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:11 pm

Hi all,
I just recently got my first dragon from a couple who had put him for sale. He is supposedly about and year and a half. He's pretty nice so far, and I think we will get along great once he gets used to his relocation.

Heres the problem- I did a lot of research into care for dragons before buying, and according to my research these guys did everything wrong. The substrate is sand, there is a heat rock (which I have read are bad due to overheating and burning dragons, though he does seem to like it), they didn't bathe him, the cage looks like it hasn't been cleaned in a long time, there is no UVB light, no thermometers, and no reptile hide. I picked him up this evening and I have already bought cleaner (fluker's Super Scrub, Thoughts?) and a hide.

For the others aspects:
Substrate- Tile seems to be the most praised substrate, so I think I am decided on that.
UVB- According to another post on this site, the best UVB light is the reptisun 10.0, so I plan to add that
Thermometer: I've seen people recommend the thermometer gun, and the probe temp thermometer, I will likely end up getting both, but which is better to get first to use for a while?
There is also no background or cover for the glass "vivarium". Are those needed?

Finally, he seems very thin. I haven't seen him eat very much and there are still some crickets poppin around his crib from probably the last time he was fed. Is it bad to leave the rickets in there with him? How can I fatten him up?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby MrChenMan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:33 pm

The Temp Gun is very convenient and you should definitely buy it first

The background isn't necessary but makes them feel a bit more secure. Also if you do the background I suggest doing the sides also just for some more comfort.

ALWAYS REMOVE CRICKETS FROM THE TANK. If there are crickets in the tank while your dragon is sleeping they will eventually eat your dragon and its never good to have wounds on your dragon.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:42 pm

MrChenMan wrote:The Temp Gun is very convenient and you should definitely buy it first

The background isn't necessary but makes them feel a bit more secure. Also if you do the background I suggest doing the sides also just for some more comfort.

ALWAYS REMOVE CRICKETS FROM THE TANK. If there are crickets in the tank while your dragon is sleeping they will eventually eat your dragon and its never good to have wounds on your dragon.
v

Well not really ---- IF YOU LEAVE THE GREENS AND SALAD VEG IN THE TANK O/NIGHT, the crickets will be drawn to the greens and salad stuff and nibble on that instead .
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby kyleena29 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Yes it is bad to leave crickets for a long period especially while they are sleeping. They will chew on your beardie. You can try dubia roaches if you can have them where you live or silkworms. You can try hornworms, super worms, wax worms, butterworms, but those you don't want to give as often. Mainly as a treat or just to get him to gain some weight. Are you feeding veggies? You can give collard greens, mustard greens, dandelion greens and turnip greens daily. You can add some butternut or spaghetti squash, I use a julienne tool but you can shred them. They can also have papaya. Here is a site with a good list of foods. http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

I don't think a background is necessary but I think it would look nice. Either themometer is fine, I started with two digitals with probes though. As for the uvb I recommend the arcadia, reptisun had some not so good bulbs recently I don't know if the fixed the issues yet. Here is where I got mine. http://www.reptilebasics.com/arcadia-de ... 5-bulb-34/ I recommend the T5. You would also need to get a light fixture with reflector which are also sold there.

They also sell F10 cleaner which is really good as there is no rinsing, you just let it dry and it continues working. After you've had him for a few weeks you might want to get a stool sample done since he's been in dirty conditions.

I hope everything goes well for you and am so glad you have done your research. Good luck with your new beardie.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:07 pm

TadCooper97 wrote:Hi all,
I just recently got my first dragon from a couple who had put him for sale. He is supposedly about and year and a half. He's pretty nice so far, and I think we will get along great once he gets used to his relocation.

Heres the problem- I did a lot of research into care for dragons before buying, and according to my research these guys did everything wrong. The substrate is sand <<< BAD
, there is a heat rock (which I have read are bad due to overheating and burning dragons, though he does seem to like it) <<< VERY BAD
, they didn't bathe him, <<<< bathing beardies is not necessary unless
> the beardie has soiled himself
> the beardie is too hot
> the beardie has an impaction (not been to the toilet for several days) the luke warm (35oC water) and some tummy rubbing can help get the poo and hard urates out
> the beardie has an open injury that needs an antiseptic wash

the cage looks like it hasn't been cleaned in a long time,<<< VERY BAD
there is no UVB light,<<< EXTREMELY BAD , I'd have a vet check him for MBD and Vi VitD deficiency (blood work)
no thermometers,<<< NOT GOOD
and no reptile hide. <<< NOT GOOD
I picked him up this evening and I have already bought cleaner (fluker's Super Scrub, Thoughts? <<< never heard of it , I highly recommend you invest in a 200ml bottle of F10SC and a F10 SPRAY BOTTLE (you add about 5ml of SC and make up to 1L with tap water and the diluted F10 is simply sprayed onto all the surfaces after washing those you can with a damp piece of kitchen grade paper towel, then left to stand and airdry for 30mins, the residue is wiped away with a dry piece of paper towel and this will effectively kill off virtually all bacteria, viruses and fungal spores on contact after 30 minutes)
and a hide. <<<< I recommend a JUMBO HUBBA HUT.

For the others aspects:
Substrate- Tile seems to be the most praised substrate, so I think I am decided on that.<<< TICK
UVB- According to another post on this site, the best UVB light is the reptisun 10.0, so I plan to add that <<<< TICK , how tall is the tank, if it's about 24inches tall, I recommend a T5 tube rated at least 10% UVB (higher is better , Arcadia make 12%UVB and 14%UVB T5 tubes which are excellent.
The UVB tube will need to have a reflector behind it (this concentrates the UVA and UVB where the beardie needs it).
If the lid is mesh screen , install the UVB tube UNDER THE LID.
Thermometer: I've seen people recommend the thermometer gun, and the probe temp thermometer,<<<< the probe style digital thermometers are excellent and very accurate , I've tested mine under laboratory conditions and found they were accurate within 1oC of the temperature
These are good http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-LCD-Digit ... SwLqFV9CcS

Noncontact kitchen thermometer that throw a laser spot at the target are very good for getting the surface temperatures , one like this is good http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Temp ... Sw44BYUqut

I will likely end up getting both, but which is better to get first to use for a while?
There is also no background or cover for the glass "vivarium". Are those needed?

Finally, he seems very thin. I haven't seen him eat very much and there are still some crickets poppin around his crib from probably the last time he was fed. Is it bad to leave the rickets in there with him? How can I fatten him up? <<< an extra feed of live high quality insects each day
> crickets (gut loaded with Repcal adult beardie pellets + high calcium greens (buk/puk choi/ Kale etc) + fresh carrot for moisture and food, or roaches, or locasts (see crickets)
> medium (2 inch long) silkworms are great feeders, as are large silkworms , and suitable to use as a daily insect staple.
> superworms as treats.
Thanks in advance.


Very likely he is very calcium deficient and has very low blood VitD. I recommend getting some CalciVet and a small 5ml syringe and giving him his calcium in liquid form until he has been fatten up and you are sure he is fine and healthy.
Dusting bugs with calcium powder is very hit and miss, you never can be sure how much calcium is actually being ingested as a dust layer on the bugs....using a know volume of CalciVet (dosed in accordance with his weigh) will ensure he gets the dietary calcium he required.

What is tank's size ( L x W x H ) ?

What is the basking bulb like (wattage, color) ?

What's beardie's name ? and weight ?

Photos of him and setup are also helpful.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby Stres » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:12 am

Since I don't think it was mentioned he would also benefit (some say there mandatory) greatly from having a stat similar to this

http://www.microclimate.co.uk/b-series-3/b1/

To help regulate the heat in the vivarium and keep basking temperatures at the right level, and help prevent any over heating that may occur during the warmer months.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby TadCooper97 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:58 am

Thanks all for the replies. I got all the crickets out of there.. definitely some hoppin around my room now. I'll pick up some calcivet and a heat gun on the way home from work. I'll post pictures of the setup and all dimensions when I get home. Heat lamp cover is reptile dome lamp fixture model-red 1415-7 120v 60hz 150w MAX. The light is different it looks like, National geographic, 250v 650w 42RD E329645.

Best way to carry beardie in the car for a trip to the vet?
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby Stres » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:04 am

TadCooper97 wrote:
Best way to carry beardie in the car for a trip to the vet?


You should be fine with a decent sized box and a very well covered hot water bottle at one side of it. And poke some holes in the box so there's some air flow. I always end up waiting a long time at my vet as there's only one exotic vet there and there always a few people with birds waiting to see her.

If you do use a hot water bottle just make sure the dragon can't touch it. I wrap mine up inside a couple of old towels.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby diamc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Heat lamp cover is reptile dome lamp fixture model-red 1415-7 120v 60hz 150w MAX. The light is different it looks like, National geographic, 250v 650w 42RD E329645.
Are you actually using a 650 watt bulb in a 150 watt maximum dome fixture? Or am I misunderstanding?
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby TadCooper97 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:11 pm

That's the information on the fixture and bulb, so it looks like yes. Another replacement incoming. My vive is 18.5 tall, 35 and a fourth wide on the front and back, and 17 and a half wide on the sides. What wattage heat lamp should i buy for that size tank? 100w?

Also should I buy a new basking rock, or just unplug the electric one and place it under the lamp? right now I have the electric one covered and unplugged, I'm going out now to get a new heat lamp, hopefully some tiles, and to talk to my local vet.

His name is Iccaract.
Image

Image

Image

I'm aware of all the things wrong with his home and am working to fix them, please remember this is how is got him!

Thanks all for the help.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby diamc » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:33 pm

I don't see how it could be a 650 watt bulb! But, any wattage bulb over the 150 watt maximum that the dome requires is a HUGE fire hazard.

The tank measurements sound like it is equal to a 40 gallon breeder. A 75 or 100 watt white basking bulb should be good but it depends on the room temp and the height of the basking area so can't say for sure.

Are you using either a temp gun or digital probe thermometer to check the temps?

Definitely keep the heat rock UNPLUGGED.
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:35 am

TadCooper97 wrote:That's the information on the fixture and bulb, so it looks like yes. Another replacement incoming. My vive is 18.5 tall, 35 and a fourth wide on the front and back, and 17 and a half wide on the sides. What wattage heat lamp should i buy for that size tank? 100w?

Also should I buy a new basking rock, or just unplug the electric one and place it under the lamp? right now I have the electric one covered and unplugged, I'm going out now to get a new heat lamp, hopefully some tiles, and to talk to my local vet. <<<< I'd unplug it from the power socket and then cut the cord to the rock with a pair of scissors so you or others who live in your home can't ever plug it in ever again.

For night time IF it gets chilly overnight in the room ( less than 21oC) I recommend a CHE controlled by a switching thermostat whose probe is positioned where he usually beds down. Can run this 24/7, it simply wont be active on account of the action the thermostat when it's warm in the room and during the day when the basking light is on.



His name is Iccaract.
Image

Image

Image

<<<< wow .... that's one very black beard going on there ....!!!

I'm aware of all the things wrong with his home and am working to fix them, please remember this is how is got him!

Thanks all for the help.


It's a very small tank he is in at the moment.... I think if you start off with a good 80W MVB maybe , I think I figured out at one stage that 80W was adequate for beardies in a tank 400mm - 450mm tall, it's the distance from the front end if the globe to the basking spot that is important (I was looking at 80W Arcadia MVBs).
I think an 80W Par38 Philips clear colorless incandescent like http://www.lighting.philips.com.au/prof ... hape/par38 will be OK, PROVIDING HE HAS A GOOD SOURCE OF UVA AND UVB, it's a matter of trial and error in adjusting the globe to basking spot distance by moving the basking spot / purch/ branch until you get the desired temperature, if you can't (too low ==> go to 100W or 120W) , if too hot go to a lower wattage globe.
CBDs: Puff (RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born 9/2010).
EWSs : Lucky (wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old .
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Re: Fatten up+General improvements.

Postby TadCooper97 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:22 pm

Think I am finally done fixing his new home for the time being.

Image

Basking at 105-
Image

Thank you all for the help. He has eaten a few greens a crickets a day since I got him, but I have still yet to see some poop, and I have bathed him twice. Going to the Vet on monday.
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