Brumation vs. Illness (and other quick questions)

Hi all, I'm so happy to have found this site. I'm a (fairly) new beardie parent. My son brought the school bet beardie home one weekend last February and next thing I know we were at the pet store the following weekend. A beardie wouldn't have been my choice, but since he's been with us I'm his main caretaker and I've become quite attached and want to be sure his is as happy and healthy as possible. I have a few questions and would be grateful for any advice.

1. Brumation at 8 months? Lately he hasn't been eating or pooping much. And at one point he was laying in his water off and on all day. I had to refill it several times, which is unusual. I assumed he was just getting hydrated. And then two days ago his main heat lamp broke so that the temp in his cage was around 90 degrees. After that he found away under his substrate and was there all day yesterday. I put a towel over him to give him a little more cover. He's been sleeping on and off, but hasn't moved or eaten. His eyes are open right now. Is this Brumation or do I need to be worried? What should I do? Leave him alone or get him out for a bath? Is it the temp and once I replace the one heat lamp it should resolve itself?

2. Behavior In House - When I take him out of his cage around bedtime and place him on my shoulder with a cover, he'll go right to sleep and stay that way. His color gets very light. I'm assuming that means he likes this. But if I take him out during the day, he seems to always want to go explore. Generally he'll look around for a bit, then find a covered hiding spot and stay there. He won't just hang with me during the day. Does this indicate he's not really attached to me yet? I've read that some owners can take their beardie out and they'll just sit on their shoulders for hours.

Also, I see some people let their beardies run around on their couch or bed. I would do this except he pooped on me a few times. How do you handle that possibility?

Additionally I've read that some people let their beardies sleep on their bed with them, or in a cat bed type thing next to their bed and they are still there in the morning. I would be afraid he would get up and go during the night and I would have to search for him in the morning. But perhaps they don't do that because they are sleeping and bodies are not too warm?

2. Outdoors for Beardies? I've been reading and reading on this forum and see that some people take their beardies outside and let them run around a bit and they don't run away. I would love to give our beardie that experience (too cold now but next summer) but am terrified he'd run too fast for me to get him. I have a backyard, but it has a metal fence around it which has holes big enough for him to get through. Normally he doesn't ever go faster than I could get him, but not sure if he would in the outdoors. I was waiting until I had an outdoor enclosure for him, but maybe I don't need to?

What about taking a ride in the car? One owner said their beardie is happy to be in the car looking at the world go by. I've had ours with us when we needed to be gone for a while and had to take him. But we kept him comfy in a box with a blanket, food, etc. Could I have safely let him out?

4. Where is best spot for beardie's home? Recently moved him from my son'ts room into our living room so that he could see more of us and vice versa. Do they like seeing more activity? Maybe feeling safe and quiet much of the time was better?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Quick follow up -

I just picked him up to be sure he was okay and check for some of the signs listed here. He seems and feels normal, though he is a bit cold (like during the night) even though his lights have been on for a bit. He did rush to get back to his cage. He got to top of it and went towards wall, climbed halfway up and stayed there. That's not totally normal for him. He seems like he wants to be back in. When I placed him on my shoulder on a towel and put the towel over him, he stayed put.

If it is brumation, should I give him a bath and try to be sure he poops? I think the last time he pooped was several days ago. He hasn't eaten much since then, but I do think he's taken some bites of veggies.

The eating slowed down before his main heat lamp blew, and he did seem to be hiding more in his hide spot. But he didn't cover himself and stay put until after the light went out. He's never stayed put for a whole day before.

I am going to replace his main heat lamp today (he has two others that have been on along with the non-heat lamp that gives him the correct rays). Maybe he'll return to normal after that. If not, what should I do or check for to make sure he is not ill and then relax and let him have his sleep.

Thanks again in advance for any thoughts.

Hi there, welcome to the wonderful but confusing world of beardies. I'll answer a few Q's, but if you could post pics of him [ full body shots ] as well as his set up including light placement it would be helpful. Here's how to post pics :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/

He is a bit young to voluntarily brumate, but it's not too unusual for a large juvenile to slow down this time of year. Some will sleep off + on but still come out on their own every week or so to have a bite to eat. If he's a good size + weight that's fine. Laying in the water bowl is not a good thing, you can take it out except for maybe once a week. Warm baths to encourage a poo can be given once a week, but not to late at night, they take a while to dry completely and you don't want him to be damp + catch a chill.

So how much does he eat and what do you feed him ?

Thanks for the reply. I'll get some pics up shortly.

I feed him crickets and fresh greens and "treats." The greens are normally collard greens, dandelion greens or mustard greens, but mostly collard as they are easier to find here. Then I rotate the "treats" - carrots, strawberries, blueberries, figs, bananas, dried veggie mix from petco, etc.

I would give him crickets a few times a day, if he was eating them. But lately his eating has slowed way down. I put 6 or so in his cage in the morning and many of them end up dying before he eats them- they are lasting days. I've only been buying about 15 at a time. Eating of his veggies has slowed down too.

I was giving him large crickets and he seemed to be eating them no problem, but I just read on these forums that large crickets could cause impaction. Is that true? Could that be what this is?

I'm concerned that laying in the water not a good thing. He only did it that one day, but it seemed like it was on and off all day that day. The water kept getting soaked up and I had to refresh it several times, which is not usual. Are there reasons they do this? He hasn't done it since.

I have him on my shoulder now with a towel over him. He closes his eyes but wakes up if I lift the corner to peek at him. Wondering if I should give him a warm bath. I found an article about treating an impaction that recommended feeding through a dropper of baby food veggies and a little watered down gatorade. Try that?

I don't have a vet yet, trying to find one in my area. Would love to avoid a visit altogether if I can, but of course will take him in if he needs it. Just want to be sure he is okay!

Here are some pics. The large light is the one that blew (150watt) and needs to be replaced. The cage on top is for crickets. (I hope this works.Uploading was not a problem but not sure how to include them here.)

I put him in a warm bath and he pooped - so not impacted, that's good news. His color was bright and light at that time. I changed his branch so the top is closer to the lights that are still working. Should be close to 100 right under the light. Placed him there and he stayed for a few minutes, gaped for a few seconds, then came down. Put some fresh food in his enclosure and he checked it out but then left. Took a few cut up blueberries by hand.

Now he is in the middle of the branch (sort of the center between all the different levels) and his colors are darker. He's not happy about something. I think he is really wanting a better place to hide in there. Could that be it?

Sorry I forgot to ask, what exact brand of lights do you use ? I'm off to an eye appt. now + some errands + won't be able to reply until later. Other members can help out if anything needs to be tweaked with your uvb + heat bulbs.

Hi there,
Are you my twin?
I have a ~ 11 month old beardie and he's doing exactly the same thing yours is. And my setup is very similar to yours! I have brought him to the vet and they did an xray on him and there is no impaction. The vet said she's not concerned with MBD. They want to do a poop sample but he hasn't pooped. He did poop a 8 days ago. But before that it was 12 days.
He hardly eats anything. I offer Phoenix worms, superworms, crickets, peas, strawberry, endive, and dandelion greens. He says no way to all of it. The vet said she was expecting him to look worse than he did. So I really believe mine is brumating. I was told to give him a bath 3 times per day, but if he's brumating I'm going to do it just 1 or 2 times per week.
I hope this helps

newbeardieparent, what type of uvb bulb are you using ? I see 3 dome lights, including a red one [ which are just a money maker for pet stores ] only clear white bulbs are appropriate for dragons. But if you're using a coil or compact uvb bulb it may not be producing enough uvb, which can affect energy level + be harmful in the long run.

He looks pretty good [ and definitely cute ! ] and your set up is nice, I always like a big log like that for climbing .

Hi,

I'm not sure what type of UVB light it is. The red one is supposed to be a heat lamp for night. I only have it on now since the 150 watt bulb blew, or I'll keep it on during the day if the temp is low and I think he needs a little extra heat to get the enclosure temp to 100. Normally during the day I have on the large white 150watt bulb, a white 75watt bulb and the long light you see which is supposed to provide the rays he needs.

I looked on it for a brand and don't see any indication, other than it was produced in Canada. It is the only one our Petco had and we were told it would provide the rays he needs.

Can you tell me what the light set up should be? Then I can get the appropriate lights. I don't mind replacing whatever I need to even if its just in case its not right.

So yesterday he was active when I took him out of his cage. He did as he typically does, looked around a bit then tucked himself into a little hiding space. I eventually picked him up, wrapped him in a blanket and placed him on the couch, where he stayed until I put the whole thing - him and the towel into the enclosure because I had to step out. When I returned he was in the same place I had left him. It was night and he wasn't going to sleep, so I put him on my shoulder with the towel over him and he went right to sleep like he always does. I placed the whole thing (him plus towel) back in to sleep for the night.

Today, once lights went on, he seems to be somewhat active, but he is doing something new again. He is repeatedly puffing his beard and flaring his back at the same time. I've seen him do this when he felt threatened a few times, but never in his enclosure. What does THIS mean?

Thanks everyone for your help!

Found out the brand name of the UVB light - its Zilla Desert Light. 50 Watts UVB Rays. Is that enough for a 40 gallon tank?

He's acting much more normal today. I just got home from Petco with a new light and bigger tree stump hiding spot, so he can fit under there more easily now. Also came home with 5 crickets, just to test and see if he would eat them, and he ran right after them, gobbled them all up. Tomorrow I'll bring more. Plus he had a few meal worms and ate some fresh greens.

So I think he is good!

But would love to know if I need to change the lighting set up. Want to be sure he is happy!!

That's good that he's acting normally and eating as well. Sorry I didn't get back sooner, a few times I tried to log on + the site was offline. The Zilla is an O.K bulb, but not as strong as some others and you have to check to see if there's a plastic shield over the bulb so be sure to take it off if there is. A better bulb is the Reptisun 10.0 t5 [ be sure it's the t5, not the t8 ] or the Arcadia 12%, both are tube uvb. Maybe see if you can find either of those. And ythe redbulb is O.K along with a white but not on it's own. At night you won;t need any heat unless the temp. goes below 18 C. Then use a ceramic heat emitter [ CHE ] rather than a red light, the light can actually disturb their sleep.