My new baby from petco

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kaylaw66

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Hi guys so I saw this little guy that was being bullied by the other little dragons and wasn't doing so good on Saturday. I couldn't live with myself if I just left it their to die so I bought it. The first day it would just lay their very lethargic with its eyes shut. If it moved it would move in circles. It did eat a baby dubia roach though. Sunday it actually ran after a dubia roach without going in circles so it is doing a little better. Monday I took it to a vet (my herp vet is out of country for 2 weeks, the closest other reptile vet is 2 hours away so I went to the petco recommended vet that was listed on the adoption paperwork) about the eyes being shut all the time the vet said he didn't see an infection in its eyes and it seemed normal just extremely malnourished (he also said it looks way to small for it to have its first shed as it is shedding) and to just keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best. I really want to help this little guy and I need some suggestions. It eats about one dubia roach a day, I've also been sirenge feeding a little baby food squash and just started a little repta boost. I give it a shallow bath every day because that's the only way it likes to drink water. The basking spot is 111, 90 on hot side, cool side about 80-85ish I have a zilla 5.0 dessert ubv tube, it's in a 10 gallon (the only ubv bulbs petco had were zilla dessert and tropical), reptile carpet, and it's in a 10 gallon to not over stress it in a big cage. It will open its eyes when being touched and when I put a bug in next to it and that's about it I'm very worried is their anything else I can do for this baby?
 

Varalidaine

Juvie Member
Many dragons, especially from mills, are more likely to have severe illness, diseases, parasites, and genetic mutations because of the atrocious and stressful conditions they come from. Petco reptiles are actually shipped from overseas in take-out containers. It's sad how many animals don't make the journey. Whenever you see an animal in need at a pet store, I always recommend people call the number listed on the outside of the habitat and report the store and manager. Things can only change if the company realizes it is at fault and that people are unhappy with the care of the animals instead of giving them money for it.

ADV is a big one that even responsible breeders battle with. The spinning in circles thing worries me and would probably be due to a neurological disorder, which would be unfix-able. The Zilla light could be hurting his eyes as well, as they are pretty shoddy lights and the plastic that the hoods come with actually block some of the UVB. You can order the ReptiSun on Amazon and when it comes, return the Zilla light so you don't have to take a big hit on lights. In such a small tank, I would probably get a T8 10.0, maybe even a 5.0 depending on your set up and how close he gets to the lights. If he is malnourished, increase the amount of veggie-based baby food he is getting as you don't want to flood a starved animal with protein. You'll need to gradually increase the protein to give his body time to adjust. You can start with the squash and every week increase the amount of chicken or turkey baby food that you mix in with it until it's mostly chicken/turkey. You can continue to offer insects if he'll eat them and then wean him off the baby food to be on insects and actual veg full time.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Poor little guy, he may have a virus [ as was mentioned , the atadenovirus ] or may have another reason [ calcium deficiency even ] causing his problems. He does need good uvb , calcium and just hope for the best....you're doing a great job with him.

Wild caught lizards are sometimes from overseas but baby beardies are soooo plentiful and so cheap here in the U,S. that they are all bred here in the U.S. And all babies are shipped in deli cups or similar containers, almost every breeder uses them. It is sad to see them churned out puppy-mill style though. Some stores really try to keep them healthy, others are really atrocious.
 

kaylaw66

Member
Original Poster
My boyfriend also got a bearded dragon from their that seems pretty healthy (they are in separate vivs of course) and it also has the zilla ubv it's eyes don't seem affected but I will order reptasun 5.0 on amazon as soon as I can. Does the hood come with the light bc im not seeing it in the description? If not is their a cheaper alternative I can do instead of the hood? I called the 1800 number for petco and talked to a supervisor about the bearded dragons condition after I got it and they got ahold of the store manager and also paid the vet visit with their vet. The baby is super pretty and also looks like a leatherback so if it survives I can't wait to see how the colors will turn out. The dragon no longer runs in circles so I'm not thinking it's neurological, maybe it fell or got dropped in the store prior to me getting it its only unbalanced when it keeps an eye shut but as soon as both are open it'll move strait, climb on its basking rock, ect. I've been doing the squash which it seems to like a lot. Also I will say one of their employees are a joke he was missinforming people and he tried to convince me that I needed a red light (I use purple night bulbs because my sweet marty can most definitely see a red light and he wants nothing to do with it at night) and tried saying bearded dragons are nocturnal and I'm just freezing him which is why marty sleeps at night. When I tried to set his information straight he got pissed off, stopped talking and walked off very rudely and I had to ask the front person for a few crickets (they are treats to give my dubia colony a break bc they don't breed fast enough for Marty's huge appetite, I'll probably have to start a second colony for thsee baby's when they get bigger lol)
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
The zilla T8 bulb is fine but I'd switch it with the 10.0. The 5.0 is lower output for shade creatures. The Zilla Slimline fixture can be ordered with the 10.0 (desert) bulb. Just be sure to remove the clear plastic from in front of the bulb as that will intercept all of the UVB. It provides best output 6'' below the bulb so that's where I'd put the basking area. It's an appropriate bulb for smaller enclosures but you'll want to upgrade later when you have a bigger tank.

I would also consider at least moving to a 20g long tank instead of a 10g tank. The reason for that is to provide a heat and UVB gradient. It's almost impossible to get a proper gradient in a smaller 10g tank. You want to shoot for the basking area to be between 100-110 and the cool side to be around 75-80 during the day. The UVB light should sit right next to the basking light over the basking area. Having an IR temp gun or digital thermometer with 2 probes is pretty important for getting accurate temperature readings. Something like this would work well https://www.amazon.com/Nubee-Temperature-Non-contact-Infrared-Thermometer/dp/B00CVHIJDK
 

Gormagon

Extreme Poster
kaylaw66":3qds8dgw said:
Also I will say one of their employees are a joke he was missinforming people and he tried to convince me that I needed a red light (I use purple night bulbs because my sweet marty can most definitely see a red light and he wants nothing to do with it at night) and tried saying bearded dragons are nocturnal and I'm just freezing him which is why marty sleeps at night.
They don't need any type of light at night it disturbs their sleep patterns and makes them cranky. You don't even need a heat source at night unless your house Temps get below 60 to 65 at night. At this point you will need a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) to supply heat. They like to cool down when they sleep.
 

Varalidaine

Juvie Member
When I said shipped from overseas, I didn't mean wild-caught. I meant the mill supplier is over-seas. Different Petco's and PetSmart will have different suppliers but I know some stores use Reptiles By Mac and they import from mills over-seas to supply some stores. Anyway, I am SO glad you called the number to report them! So little people do that and it makes me happy to know someone did the right thing instead of just buying the animal and leaving like so many people do. Thank you for that! :blob5:

For the Reptisun, my ReptiSun T5 HO Hood that I got off Amazon came with a T5 5.0 Bulb but I also ordered a 10.0 and use the 5.0 as back-up in case the 10.0 breaks for any odd reason. I think you can also get T5 Fixtures at Walmart? The hood doesn't have to be a fancy one, but the reflectors they are made with help direct more UVB down. I agree that no animal should have night lights. Most animal don't need to be heated at night and if they do (in this case dragons don't need to be heated unless it falls below 65 degrees at night) then use a Ceramic Heat Emitter as these produce heat without producing any light. Regardless of whether an animal can see a certain color, doesn't mean they can't see the light. Light creates highlights and shadows, so even if they can't see purple or red, they'll see it has white, gray, or some other color of light. Colorblindness does not equal actual blindness :) And they need a cool-down period at night, just like any critter. It helps with their Circadian Rythm. As temperatures drop and lights go down, the body slows. If they can't cool down or have complete darkness, it can mess with hormonal production, metabolic rate, and all that jazz.
 

Rankins

Gray-bearded Member
No bearded dragons are being imported from overseas. If they are, they are illegally smuggled into the US. I did get my original colony 30 years ago through Germany, but import paperwork and permits were expensive. There is really no need to buy overseas, bearded dragons are being produced in huge numbers in the US.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am sorry your baby is having such a rough start in life.
Take your time with him, slow & steady is usually the best way to get them to gain weight.
You can try getting some bee pollen to help with his immune system & boost his appetite, also.
Improving the lighting should greatly help him too.
I am glad you did contact the store about the care & advice you received. I wish that stores just wouldn't carry certain species if they didn't properly care for them.
I hope that he is going to be ok. Let us know how he is doing.
Bearded dragons are imported from countries that allow for legal exportation such as Germany & a few others in Europe.

Tracie
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I agree, slow + steady and hopefully he'll make it. :) And to clarify, high end + high dollar dragons are still imported from breeders in a few countries for breeders here in the U.S.+ vice versa . These are very expensive dragons + bringing them in is very expensive. But baby beardies are not imported from dragon mills overseas to the pet stores. The pet stores are all supplied from breeders here in the U.S, paying very little for their babies. No baby beardie in a pet store comes from over seas.
 

kaylaw66

Member
Original Poster
So far the baby seems to be fine. It can't seem to catch bugs as easily as the other little one though I'm thinking from its eyes. It's been getting a little pinch of reptile boost and squash everyday. It has been eating a dubia nymph or 2 day (I give it more but that's what it eats), but gives up if it can't catch that bugs the first attempt and goes back to it. As for the night light bulbs, my place stays around 70 at night, so they don't need them? I have a 50 gallon breeder for when it gets older and most accessories for it other than bulbs and ubv, could I possibly section that off instead of buying another new tank?
 

Varalidaine

Juvie Member
I know how that is, my Leopard Gecko is the same way and won't hunt if she doesn't catch it on the first try. Phoenix Worms would probably be a better option for him since they wriggle enough to catch attention but are slow enough he won't get frustrated hunting them. You can order a cup of 100 for 4.99 here: http://www.rainbowmealworms.net/phoenix-worms-1/

If he has a truly difficult time, you can try syringe feeding him. There are many products out there suitable for this purpose like Flukers ReptAid, Repashy Veggie Burger, Repashy Grub Pie, Repashy Bluey Buffet, Carnivore Care and Critical Care. I mix some Pangea with the Repashy Grub Pie because my guy LOVES Pangea.

You will never need night bulbs. They're gimmicky junk made to get people to spend more money. They disrupt sleep patterns, which can cause their hormones, digestion, etc to get all out of whack. If your place stays 70 at night, you don't need supplemental heating. If it gets below 65, then use a Ceramic Heat Emitter as these emit heat without any light.

Do you mean 40 gallon breeder? Never heard of a 50 gallon breeder, but you can definitely partition it off while he's little. I used cardboard to cut mine in half while he was young.
 

kaylaw66

Member
Original Poster
It's a 55 gallon sorry I typed too fast I've been researching whether I should get a 22" or 34" uvb for my 40 gallon breeder (I've been doing the mercury uva uvb combo bulbs but recently found out they were bad and forums on how they are harmful while researching baby bearded dragon stuff so I'm switching him over to uv tubes and a basking light asap aswell) and I guess I got confused while typing lol. Are phoenix worms okay for baby bearded dragons? I know meal worms are a no no and I hate even dealing with crickets. The baby had a lot of energy today, I actually startled it while going to get it out and it tried to bite at me lol so I think that's a good sign it's doing better? Lol it seemed to enjoy squash and reptile high amp boost after I got it out though. Also I broke the cover off the zilla light for better uvb I had no idea it was bolted on only 2 sides so it snapped part of the plastic off while I was pulling one side of the cover up so the uvb bulb is showing so I guess I'm stuck with it. How do they expect people to replace those lights if the covers aren't ment to to come off? How much of the tank should I section off? I don't want it overwelmed in a too big of a tank.
 

Varalidaine

Juvie Member
I would reccoemd keeping him in the 40 gallon breeder instead of the 55. 55's are very narrow and do not make suitable homes for an adult because of that. If he's already in a 40, I would just section it in half so you can still achieve a a temperature gradient. For a 40 gallon, I would use the 22" so that there is still part of the tank without UVB exposure.

Phoenix worms are fine because they are soft bodied. They are a squishy larva and because of their calcium to phosphorous ratio don't need to be dusted with calcium. They are excellent feeders! I dust mine every other feeding just to be sure my dragon gets enough calcium.
 
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