Skull/brain deformity? Please help!

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Calcal

Member
So, I just noticed this isn't "normal" on baby beardies from pics I've seen... They all have flat heads..

My baby's got a bump where his third eye is. It's very risen and visible. Is this normal..? He's had it for as long as I've had him.. he seems to act normal, eat, drink, poop, run around, bask, look at things that move, hunt, etc. I don't know what this is but it's very concerning. Is it some sort of tumor..? He's a fancy/leatherback. I got him from petco. I never noticed this as unusual until now.

I'm very, very worried this might affect him when he's older. He's very sweet. I don't want some bump to end up being his cause of death.

Here's some pics:
fsBfA7f.jpg

8hDifjj.jpg

vkFhAA7.jpg
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
He is very cute ! If he's had that as long as you've owned him then it's likely just the skull formation and nothing to worry about.
 

Calcal

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":1q0i1g7s said:
He is very cute ! If he's had that as long as you've owned him then it's likely just the skull formation and nothing to worry about.
What about when he grows up though? Will it affect him?
 

Gormagon

Extreme Poster
Calcal":efnccw7a said:
AHBD":efnccw7a said:
He is very cute ! If he's had that as long as you've owned him then it's likely just the skull formation and nothing to worry about.
What about when he grows up though? Will it affect him?
Doubtful.
 

Calcal

Member
Original Poster
Alright then..

I'd still like to know more about what this might be or what it's called. If any of you know, or know somebody that might know, please give me more information over it!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
He's a little cutey !!!

Re lump on his head : I've had a beardie develop a similar issue , BUT his was located behind the skull crown.
Puff's lump felt like it was full of fluid from the start. Does your beardie's lump feel hard (like bone) or does it have some give in it (like it's full of fluid) ?

You need to get him to a vet to have it examined , I lost my much loved 3 year old boy Puff because he developed an aneurism on his jugular , it was misdiagonised by the vet as an abscess , and found to be full of blood when he under general to have the "abscess" drained and removed, Puff never woke up and died from a cardiac arrest (due to excessive blood loss) while in recovery. :(


See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=216352&p=1698128&hilit=lumo+on+head#p1698128 , Puff was about 2.5 yr old when his lump started off quite small and didn't seem to bother him apart from an occasional spasm, but became an issue as it grew larger (became quite large) and had other effects (such fluid buildup on the same side of his face and his eye on that side became swollen and he injured it).

Info I found when dealing with Puff is

Done a little more googling and found a similar situation with another beardie from a few years ago here are the posts by it's owner at the time (I'm not a member of that forum BTW and don't plan on joining it as it seems just a venue to the owners to advertise their products and hatchies and the membership is very small):

http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum ... 1#post5131


by Cookiegirl 8apr11 :
Ok, it is a hematoma - she said it seems he has bumped his head (possible mating injury as suggested by the wise people here) and it has caused an internal bleed, and the swelling is actually a big pool of blood in his head. It should clot and eventually go away on its own.............so now we wait and see. She syringed the lump and it was just full of blood - my only worry was that it refilled whilst we were there which means the bleeding is still occuring, and it was four days since i first noticed it so i would expect it to have clotted before this, but i bow to the vet and her experience and knowledge. Will update when it has gone :)


and http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum ... 1#post5357


by Cookiegirl 19apr11 :
OK, new update.............took him back today as the swelling hadnt gone away and he now seems to have some swelling under his chin area as well. Vet does a few tests, looks at samples under microscope and then goes on to the internet. Result- he has a PSEUDOANEURYSM which basically means that it is an internal bleed from a blood vessel that is not treatable. It might cause him problems if it keeps growing and puts pressure on the brain/eyes whatever, or it might have no effect on him at all. The swelling under his chin is his lymph glands which are reacting to a gum infection that he has which is quite separate to the swelling at the back of his head - but which the vet says is quite common in the breed and often caused by diet - particularly dog and cat food - which we have not ever given our lizards but we have only had him for a year and he is over 5 so who knows.......... so he is on Baytril for infection and lots of hope for the swelling. Turns out the condition is very common in America. They have done some operations on it with mixed results, but this involves having a donor dragon for blood transfusions etc and no guarantees. The medical opinion is that they dont know what causes it - no-one knows.
Vet was 'excited' i guess in a good way as she had not ever heard about it before but now has quite a large folder on it as she downloaded all she could find and gave us a copy to read as well.
So we just treat him for the infection and keep a lop sided lizard and check he is ok. He is still eating well, chasing the girls if the mood takes him (should slow down real soon) so it looks like life as normal.

And when I contacted Prof Tonsey (a recognised expert in beardied dragon health in the USA)
Ian, I recommend that you take him to a vet who has experience with reptiles. Experience is important, since reptile anaesthia is a specialized area.




At the least, the welling needs to be drained. It may be a large hematoma (a collection of blood outside of the blood vessels), but even if so, draining is unlikely to make him 'bleed out'-- if he were were continuously bleeding into this area, he would be dead! It may be an infection, with puss in it, which can be cultured to see if infectious elements are still there. But relieving the pressure it by draining could prevent damage to the eye, and make him much more comfortable (not to mention, prettier).





Best,

Kathryn


She thought Puff's lump was not an aneurism, but may be a large haematoma or some kind of puss filled infection (abscess)..

If it's an abscess the prognosis is OK after surgery if the germ causing it is killed off with properly targeted campaign of antibiotics ( will need a sample taken with a small needle to do the pathology and ID the right antibiotic/s ) .

If it's an aneurism , no one know why some beardies develop aneurisms , it is from what I've gleened likely due to a birth defect and my reading and advise I was given by an expert vetinary scientist is that the prognosis can be very bad if it's let get too large , they can survive with an aneurism and aneurisms can go away spontaneously (but will return).

Keep us informed on how things shape up , but like I said, you really need to find an EXPERIENCED reptile vet, AND VERY FEW VETS see reptiles with aneurisms and know how to deal with them and treat them (this is one of the reasons why Puff never made it, ie our vet had never seen one before) and have this lump checked and get started on treatment ASAP. Good luck.
 

Calcal

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":2my34dr0 said:
He's a little cutey !!!

Re lump on his head : I've had a beardie develop a similar issue , BUT his was located behind the skull crown.
Puff's lump felt like it was full of fluid from the start. Does your beardie's lump feel hard (like bone) or does it have some give in it (like it's full of fluid) ?

You need to get him to a vet to have it examined , I lost my much loved 3 year old boy Puff because he developed an aneurism on his jugular , it was misdiagonised by the vet as an abscess , and found to be full of blood when he under general to have the "abscess" drained and removed, Puff never woke up and died from a cardiac arrest (due to excessive blood loss) while in recovery. :(


See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=216352&p=1698128&hilit=lumo+on+head#p1698128 , Puff was about 2.5 yr old when his lump started off quite small and didn't seem to bother him apart from an occasional spasm, but became an issue as it grew larger (became quite large) and had other effects (such fluid buildup on the same side of his face and his eye on that side became swollen and he injured it).

Info I found when dealing with Puff is

Done a little more googling and found a similar situation with another beardie from a few years ago here are the posts by it's owner at the time (I'm not a member of that forum BTW and don't plan on joining it as it seems just a venue to the owners to advertise their products and hatchies and the membership is very small):

http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum ... 1#post5131


by Cookiegirl 8apr11 :
Ok, it is a hematoma - she said it seems he has bumped his head (possible mating injury as suggested by the wise people here) and it has caused an internal bleed, and the swelling is actually a big pool of blood in his head. It should clot and eventually go away on its own.............so now we wait and see. She syringed the lump and it was just full of blood - my only worry was that it refilled whilst we were there which means the bleeding is still occuring, and it was four days since i first noticed it so i would expect it to have clotted before this, but i bow to the vet and her experience and knowledge. Will update when it has gone :)


and http://www.australianbeardies.net/forum ... 1#post5357


by Cookiegirl 19apr11 :
OK, new update.............took him back today as the swelling hadnt gone away and he now seems to have some swelling under his chin area as well. Vet does a few tests, looks at samples under microscope and then goes on to the internet. Result- he has a PSEUDOANEURYSM which basically means that it is an internal bleed from a blood vessel that is not treatable. It might cause him problems if it keeps growing and puts pressure on the brain/eyes whatever, or it might have no effect on him at all. The swelling under his chin is his lymph glands which are reacting to a gum infection that he has which is quite separate to the swelling at the back of his head - but which the vet says is quite common in the breed and often caused by diet - particularly dog and cat food - which we have not ever given our lizards but we have only had him for a year and he is over 5 so who knows.......... so he is on Baytril for infection and lots of hope for the swelling. Turns out the condition is very common in America. They have done some operations on it with mixed results, but this involves having a donor dragon for blood transfusions etc and no guarantees. The medical opinion is that they dont know what causes it - no-one knows.
Vet was 'excited' i guess in a good way as she had not ever heard about it before but now has quite a large folder on it as she downloaded all she could find and gave us a copy to read as well.
So we just treat him for the infection and keep a lop sided lizard and check he is ok. He is still eating well, chasing the girls if the mood takes him (should slow down real soon) so it looks like life as normal.

And when I contacted Prof Tonsey (a recognised expert in beardied dragon health in the USA)
Ian, I recommend that you take him to a vet who has experience with reptiles. Experience is important, since reptile anaesthia is a specialized area.




At the least, the welling needs to be drained. It may be a large hematoma (a collection of blood outside of the blood vessels), but even if so, draining is unlikely to make him 'bleed out'-- if he were were continuously bleeding into this area, he would be dead! It may be an infection, with puss in it, which can be cultured to see if infectious elements are still there. But relieving the pressure it by draining could prevent damage to the eye, and make him much more comfortable (not to mention, prettier).





Best,

Kathryn


She thought Puff's lump was not an aneurism, but may be a large haematoma or some kind of puss filled infection (abscess)..

If it's an abscess the prognosis is OK after surgery if the germ causing it is killed off with properly targeted campaign of antibiotics ( will need a sample taken with a small needle to do the pathology and ID the right antibiotic/s ) .

If it's an aneurism , no one know why some beardies develop aneurisms , it is from what I've gleened likely due to a birth defect and my reading and advise I was given by an expert vetinary scientist is that the prognosis can be very bad if it's let get too large , they can survive with an aneurism and aneurisms can go away spontaneously (but will return).

Keep us informed on how things shape up , but like I said, you really need to find an EXPERIENCED reptile vet, AND VERY FEW VETS see reptiles with aneurisms and know how to deal with them and treat them (this is one of the reasons why Puff never made it, ie our vet had never seen one before) and have this lump checked and get started on treatment ASAP. Good luck.
I doubt it's an abscess or an aneurysm. It feels hard like bone, I can't move it around, and he's always had it. I'm pretty sure it has to do with his skull, but what I'm worried about is how it could mess with his brain.. then we'd be in big trouble.

Anyhow, thank you so much for the research! I am considering taking him to the vet.. problem is, he seems fine and there's not much of a budget.. I'm afraid to lose him if they do have to do surgery since he's so small.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
In that case - I've no idea what it could be.

I reckon it's probably a good idea to have it examined by an experienced reptile specialist vet, better safe than sorry IMO.
 

Calcal

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":p37jloc3 said:
In that case - I've no idea what it could be.

I reckon it's probably a good idea to have it examined by an experienced reptile specialist vet, better safe than sorry IMO.
True. But it's not exactly easy to get him one, considering how busy I am... I'm trying to find someone good..


I'm very anxious about it.. but I'd like to hear if anyone can tell just from the given facts..
 

Gail

BD.org Addict
There is no way anyone here can tell you what it is or how it may affect him. You need x-rays to see exactly what is going on with him.

Since it's hard, it's most likey a skull deformity which shouldn't bother him in the long run but you never know.

Personally, I would start saving $ so you can get him to a vet before too long. I don't think it's a emergency but I wouldn't put it off until it becomes one.
 

Calcal

Member
Original Poster
Gail":3ax3vnk2 said:
There is no way anyone here can tell you what it is or how it may affect him. You need x-rays to see exactly what is going on with him.

Since it's hard, it's most likey a skull deformity which shouldn't bother him in the long run but you never know.

Personally, I would start saving $ so you can get him to a vet before too long. I don't think it's a emergency but I wouldn't put it off until it becomes one.
That's a good idea.. I've already started to collect some.


Something odd I noticed is that a lot of them have the same bump at petco. Even though they were in seperate aquariums/stores. Maybe it's something from the breeder?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I think it's just an oddly shaped skull, you say he doesn't act any differently and some of the other babies had it. If it's not soft then it's probably the way his bone developed and will probably be fine. If you want to have a vet look at it you might see what an X-ray shows you. ONLY a vet with lots of beardie experience, an inexperienced vet can cost you a ton of money and can kill your dragon . If it is just the skull shape [ I think it is ] then nothing could be done anyway.
 
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