Cant move back legs - pinched nerve

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As some of you may know I run a rescue and sanctuary in Canada.
This year I have had an issue come to my attention that I think needs addressing, and I think there may be more people out there needing support for these seemingly neurologically sound disabilities.

I have five dragons now, of varying sizes and ages that have a specific pinched nerve in a part of their neck that slowly paralizes them. It starts as one lady described as the dragon "hugging itself" then as it grows it cannot move its shoulders, and eventually cannot walk on any of its legs. The oldest one I have is 2 and a 1/2 and she army crawls around, seemingly on her wrists like a gorilla, but without the ability to be upright.

I am wondering if anyone else is experienced with this, or if anyone is struggling to figure out what to do with them...I have heard over and over again from the people surrendering these guys that it "MUST be sever MBD" the truth is most of them are very strong, smarter than some of my personally raised dragons, and have the ability to adapt and problem solve in a deeper sense than I usually get to see. Hope is the oldest of the five, and she has helped me learn how to take care of the other four, I use rubber shelf liners to help her drag herself, she uses her belly scales to slither along it (yes I know weird)

The fact of the matter is I'd like people out there with these dragons to know it ISNT MBD its a very badly pinched nerve in the upper part of the back, the result of three different species of dragons being hybridized together (a technical result of giant lines crossing with smaller dragon lines)

Two of my dragons have had xrays, the other three are too small, and I know what the results will say.
On a random point all five of these dragons have the same pattern mutation -vertical double stripes, and I know for a fact not al five ae produced by the same person, they are from at least three breeders.

All things to take into consideration if you think your animal may have this problem.
They can catch food but I hand feed them to make sure they get enough. The oldest has to eat in bursts so she doesn't throw up (she cant properly tense her lower stomach muscles)

They get a concoction of diced veggies everyday - cabbage, dandelion, kale, carrot,and blueberries today all mixed with soft pellets, just to make sure they get what they need.

Each one has it's own tank and all my dragons are under 4foot reptisun 10.0 desert bulbs, exo terra. and a four foot industrial LED bulb, and they have under tank heating on 1/8 of the tank, under a brick. No substrate, newspaper, or for my disabled dragons I use shelf liner.

everyone has a cave and a stick, the disabled ones get a log, that sits on the ground.
I use lego to create textured rails they can pull themselves on, it works well for them!

The youngest dragon I have rescued like this is only a couple months old -

Please give me suggestions as to how to help them, they appreciate it

Or let me help you, if you are just finding out about this
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there.....it's really great that you're taking care of these special needs dragons. :) They do have a strong will to live and can make do with very difficult situations as long as they're not in severe pain. Good idea to use the shelf liner, I think it's better than tile for all dragons.

Just wondering, where did the clinical observation /study come from that determined the genes of the dragon being the cause of the pinched nerve and the determination that it is a pinched nerve and not mbd ? Paralysis can be a result of severe calcium deficiency along with ingestion of large prey items that press on the spine. Many dragons had G.Giant lines crossed in long ago and there are large types of dragons in most collections that are descended from a number of lines including G.Giant.
 

RhapsodySanctuary

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Original Poster
Sorry - one important detail I forgot.

One of these dragons I produced, not knowing that the dragons were as follows

a male pogona barbata 50% and 50% vitticeps (he was produced at a research facility for reptiles, and I have all of his bloodwork, and the scale count comparisons. He was 26inches long.

His father was an imported barbata, special to the research program. His mom was a captive bred vitticeps, but also bred by that particular research facility.

The female I bred him too was also a hybrid, of 50% vitticeps, 50% Minor,

She was actually the FIRST dragon I purchased from Reptilia, and her mother was an imported Minor ( I say minor because she has scale counts to match a different species than she is) but her paperwork says MInor minor vitticeps. She's rather large for her hybrid, but rather small to be with a giant. He was much bigger than her, but she is still 21 inches long, and a fairly big dragon in the captive world these days.
I didn't think there would be an issue - This is actually how all this started, so my apologies for not telling you.

Most of the babies were, and are fine to this day. They have produced almost 200 (after the recurring issues though I'm giving her a break and pairing her with a male that is the same species)

One in every 50 babies had this issue (that is the first dragon I had x-rayed, because I was immediately concerned for my babies (the breeders, I raised from babies.)

Where as one of my other female hybrids (this one is actually a rare Nullarbor-minor) has successfully bred with a viticeps-barbata and produced some incredible babies. She is very small and lays very big clutches, and I haven't recorded an issue to date, besides one leatherback that was born with a bit of a head spin.

The numbers say it all. After producing the first couple clutches I called and requested the history on them, and that is how I came to these conclusions
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh, O.K.... the barbata is not bred in the U.S, pretty much the P.vitticeps is the only one [ aside from Rankin's, and not many people have them ] The G.Giant is just a large vitticeps....see Vivarium magazine, Volume 7, # 6, special bearded dragon issue. So there's no problem with the larger dragons [ 24 -26" of which there are very few over 24" ] bred with average sized [ 19-21" ] dragons.

But that's an interesting group of dragons you have, there are very few barbata to be found here in the states.
 

RhapsodySanctuary

Member
Original Poster
I am assuming there is more to be found out, but hybridization is not favorable for obvious reasons, I am trying to steer clear of it.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I have always questioned the inbreeding, cross breeding, etc as it normally does not occur in nature. We haven't done a very good job of preserving the original genetics at all, it is very disappointing.
I can completely understand how hybridization would cause physical differences to the point of having genetic flaws or disabilities. This is what happens when we go against nature.
That is interesting as there are not very many barbata around since Australia doesn't allow for exporting. I have always wanted a barbata, they have such different & beautiful scaling.

Thanks for the information.

Tracie
 
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