need help!! bearded dragon refuses any live (or chilled) foo

mastershake · Jul 24, 2016

he is around 4-5 months old and when we brought him home ate crickets but sparingly, then just stopped. cold. when we refill his salad bowl he will rush over to it and practically devour whats in it. but has not had a bug in nearly 12+ days. i have tried crickets, superworm's, discoid's (cant get dubia's here), wax worms, horn worms, banana roaches, etc. will not even look at them. if i hold one in front of him he backs away and closes his eyes at them. i have started spraying his salads with liquid calcium because he will eat that.

he will also REFUSE to eat the salad if ANY insects are in it. if i try to add freeze dried anything he will not touch it. i know he needs lots of protein at this stage but i'm at my wits end with him trying everything i can to get him to eat. we have 2 others and they are around his age (1 is a month older) and they devour live food. you can tell he is not doing very well he is very slow and like to sleep. he also REFUSES to eat any salad that has vitamin powder on it. period. if it even has a hint of it he will walk right away from it.

before you say bring him to a vet i have already. 2 different ones in fact. one is a reptile specialist. they tested his stool and found nothing, they tested his blood and found nothing out of the ordinary. but both told me we need to find a way to get him to eat. one suggested to let him starve for around 4-5 days and then they will start eating, the other showed me how to open his mouth to force feed him in a way. (the reptile vet said to let him starve for a few days) the other 2 are now almost 2-3" longer then he is and he is simply not growing.its been a month and he has grown 1/8" of an in so far and is actually loosing weight. i dont want him to die but i just don't know what else to do. i have nearly 500+$ in vet bills already which has done nothing for him.

i have tried the repti boost. i tried gatorade and pedialite, the one vet gave him a antibiotic "just in case" we had to open him mouth every day and give him. did nothing. i just don't want to loose him but dont know how to get him to eat any protein??

please help??

CooperDragon · Jul 24, 2016

That's an odd one. You're providing a great variety so it's probably not boredom. At his age I probably wouldn't withhold food and if he's eating salads I'd encourage that and just keep offering bugs and let him take what he wants. Is he losing any weight? I'd monitor that and look for downward trends. What do you have in place for lighting? Is he acting skittish or lethargic or is he just refusing bugs?

mastershake · Jul 24, 2016

he has a 36" repti sun 10.0 (his cage i custom built (all of my dragons have a similar cage i built for them) is 42dx24wx22h with good venting basking temps are right around 100-105 (which i can easily adjust) and the other side is between 80-85) i have a 50watt intense bulb at his basking spot. we are actually today buying some more furniture for the cage for him to bask on. so it appears a bit empty right now. excuse the masking tape on the edges of the doors i did not get a chance to polish them fully yet and i dont want him to rub on them. ill be polishing them nicely tomm. (i also work with finish quality wood, glass and plexi) the temps sensors i put in from time to time to get an idea of humidity. i also use a infrared gun 99% of the time. you can kind of see him behind the thing with the 2 logs on it next to his log. he just ravaged his salad lol thats why its all over the place.

he lost weight then gained 2 grams then lost again then gained again but for the most part he holds steady around 50-55grams. but if he gains weight its maybe 1 gram at a time.

he gets TONS of love and attention and loves to come out and spend time with us. he will sit on my shoulder while i work etc (but i dont keep him out to long i make sure he gets plenty of time under the lights)

he is not in any way skittish. lethargic.... maybe. he really doesnt do much besides sit on his log. our other ones like to wonder around their cage and move around he just really sits there. except when he gets his salad. he will wander around when out of his cage. his colors are great he gets baths and soaks. his eyes look good i see no drooping they appear clear. he simply refuses ALL bugs.

he never gets a dark beard or anything like that. he is pooping so i know he is not blocked up. im stumped!!! can a dragon survive only on salad??

im including a pic of his enclosure.

CooperDragon · Jul 24, 2016

That looks like a good setup and I'm glad you're providing some extra furniture to climb around on. Temps are good so there's not much that stands out as an issue. It's a good sign that his weight is relatively stable. I'd continue to monitor and chart that. He may just be in a lull in growth and just isn't hungry for a bit. Keep offering bugs and hopefully he'll dig in after a bit and start another growth spurt.

Drache613 · Jul 24, 2016

Moved by Moderator from General to Health

kingofnobbys · Jul 25, 2016

I think maybe you need to check the temperatures, if too cold they wont eat. Also bump up the hours per day his lights and heat are on, I'd suggest 14 -16 hours per day.

I also suggest you start hand feeding , even if it means gentle force feeding. He should be on two live insect meals each day.

Some HerpaBoost might help boost his appetite.

mastershake · Jul 25, 2016

its def not to cold if anything it might be a bit to hot in there. it usually sits right around 85deg on the cool side i even had to remove the 25w bulb i had aimed over at that side because it was getting to around 89-90 with that installed. i tried a 75w first over the basking area and it got to almost 116deg (without him in there of course i tested it while he was out) so i settled on a 50watt because it still hit 106deg at least (some spots 110),

i know he has plenty of uvb light the repti sun 10 is a 36" bulb and cover the majority of the inside. i may step to a 40" but i thought that might be to much. with all his new stuff in there i have to continue to check temps because some of the stuff is a lot higher then his old stuff was. luckily i can aim the lights fairly easy. i started on his new home last night which will take me a while because it will house all of our dragons (separately of course) each in their own enclosure. but it will be MUCH LARGER, overall.

what sucks is i ordered in 2000 discoids and i he will not touch them. i even got 100 adult breeders hoping to not have to ever but bugs again except for the occasional treat for them. our other 2 eat them right up no issues. and we may be adopting a baby someone i know has because they bought it for their young child who will not touch it so it doesnt get ever taken out or really cleaned up after its sad. i told them ill take it from them and supposed to get it this week.

kingofnobbys · Jul 25, 2016

mastershake":1guzw1ln said:
its def not to cold if anything it might be a bit to hot in there. it usually sits right around 85deg on the cool side i even had to remove the 25w bulb i had aimed over at that side because it was getting to around 89-90 with that installed. i tried a 75w first over the basking area and it got to almost 116deg (without him in there of course i tested it while he was out) so i settled on a 50watt because it still hit 106deg at least (some spots 110), <<<< tad too hot IMO , 40oC is about right , the PBT for a bearded dragon is 36oC.
What many bearded dragon keepers and breeders do here in Australia in real heat wave conditions ( days up over 100oF ) is they have their basking light globe on a timer to automatically switch off for a few hours in the hottest part of the day (11am - 2pm say) , this allows the tank to cool off a bit and lets the dragon have a break from the heat (this the only way MVBs can be managed on really hot days, other NON-MVB basking globes can be on thermostat that turns them off if the basking spot temperature exceeds 105oF say.
Much easier to simply have a timer set up up that is plugged in if it's gonna be a real heatwave.

i know he has plenty of uvb light the repti sun 10 is a 36" bulb and cover the majority of the inside. i may step to a 40" but i thought that might be to much. with all his new stuff in there i have to continue to check temps because some of the stuff is a lot higher then his old stuff was. luckily i can aim the lights fairly easy. i started on his new home last night which will take me a while because it will house all of our dragons (separately of course) each in their own enclosure. but it will be MUCH LARGER, overall. <<< the UV tube stays on when the basking light is turned off in the middle of the day on heatwave days , so it remains very well lit up in the tank , just cooler.

what sucks is i ordered in 2000 discoids and i he will not touch them. i even got 100 adult breeders hoping to not have to ever but bugs again except for the occasional treat for them. our other 2 eat them right up no issues. and we may be adopting a baby someone i know has because they bought it for their young child who will not touch it so it doesnt get ever taken out or really cleaned up after its sad. i told them ill take it from them and supposed to get it this week.

I'd be handfeeding him if he wont eat his live insects ATM. Is very easy to do and a great way of bonding with your dragon , mind you , he'll become terribly pampered and spoilt in the process.

mastershake · Jul 28, 2016

so we have been gently force feeding him and he looks A LOT more alert now and is even moving around more but he still REFUSES to even look at live food. but he will devour his entire salad if we give it to him. when we try to feed him on his own he just stares up and once in a while will glimpse down at them and then look up again. he doesn't want to even see them. i had him checked also for any kind of sinus infection which he has none. but still the ONLY way he will eat anything live is if i gently open his mouth and my wife gently nudges it in there. we are now only feeding discoids after a few of the crickets bit her while trying to feed them. our others devour the discoids they LOVE THEM much more than any other feeder we have used so far.

also he refuses to bask under the light. he does like to get up high but on the other side i have even had to remove his favorite tree because even if we place him on the basking areas he gets down and climbs on his tree. i have even moved his tree under the light and then he will sit on something else outside of the heat. i just done know what his issue is lol. as i said i regularly check temps so i know its not to hot there.

he is just getting me SO frustrated i don't know what to do at this point. i do NOT want to have to feed him this way forever because i know its stressful it is on him (he fights me till i get him in the right position to get his mouth open) he has grown only another 1/8" since i measured him last. and so far after feeding him 5-6 small discoids 2 times a day he gained 2 grams only. his poop looks great and i had it rechecked again for anything and it was negative for the third time.

i did adjust the temps some and i think they are perfect now. basking area is right at 105-106 and the other side is at 83.

kingofnobbys · Jul 29, 2016

mastershake":1q7ji0uh said:
so we have been gently force feeding him and he looks A LOT more alert now and is even moving around more but he still REFUSES to even look at live food. but he will devour his entire salad if we give it to him. when we try to feed him on his own he just stares up and once in a while will glimpse down at them and then look up again. he doesn't want to even see them. i had him checked also for any kind of sinus infection which he has none. but still the ONLY way he will eat anything live is if i gently open his mouth and my wife gently nudges it in there. we are now only feeding discoids after a few of the crickets bit her while trying to feed them. our others devour the discoids they LOVE THEM much more than any other feeder we have used so far.

also he refuses to bask under the light. he does like to get up high but on the other side i have even had to remove his favorite tree because even if we place him on the basking areas he gets down and climbs on his tree. i have even moved his tree under the light and then he will sit on something else outside of the heat. i just done know what his issue is lol. as i said i regularly check temps so i know its not to hot there.

he is just getting me SO frustrated i don't know what to do at this point. i do NOT want to have to feed him this way forever because i know its stressful it is on him (he fights me till i get him in the right position to get his mouth open) he has grown only another 1/8" since i measured him last. and so far after feeding him 5-6 small discoids 2 times a day he gained 2 grams only. his poop looks great and i had it rechecked again for anything and it was negative for the third time.

i did adjust the temps some and i think they are perfect now. basking area is right at 105-106 and the other side is at 83.<<<<<< Try splitting the difference to arrive at a slightly lower basking spot temperature at about 36oC ( 96oF ) and see what happens.

mastershake · Aug 29, 2016

well im literally at my wits end with this guy. i have done EVERYTHING anyone has suggested and had him to yet another vet who said all is fine with him again. this vet did bloowork, xrays, and stool. nothing. he still will not eat unless we open his mouth and stick it in there. nothing. refuses to even look at live food. in the past month he has gained 1 gram. and has grown less than 1/8", we just have no idea what else to do for him. tried switching out to a zoomed t5 ho 10 bulb. did nothing. when we take him out he just sits there also. doesnt like to wander and explore like all my other dragons do. he just wants you to hold him and sit there. if you put him down he doesnt move at all. he will just tilt his head to look around. im wondering is maybe he cant see very well or possibly hardly at all. no other ideas at this point. i dont want to give up on him but i just dont know what else to do or try. i really can afford to see more vets (seem 4 different ones now) and another 1000$+ bill. this guys is literally the most expensive animal at this point ive ever had :banghead:

in a months time if i did not force feed him he would not have eaten at all and probably would be dead by now. i let him even starve for 7 days. nothing. refused to eat anything. so we decided to just start feeding him by opening his mouth and sticking the live food in there. once in his mouth he will chew them right up without any issues. he just has no desire to even move to get the food. and when it walks by him he will watch it walk by make no moves to attempt to eat any of it. i have tried every type of feeder i can get my hands on. :banghead:

mastershake · Sep 11, 2016

need help!! bearded dragon refuses any live (or chilled) foo

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