bok choy... good or bad?

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Suzanne

Member
Hi, I just have a quick question - Is the Chinese cabbage, Bok Choy - using only the leafy part of the plant, alright to feed to beardies? Thanks so much!

Suzanne
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Pretty good, my lizards get a bit each day , but it's mixed other grated vegs.

A lot of the better listed greens are not available at the grocers here unfortunately.

Comparing buk choi with others listed as GREEN
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I think there are some inconsistancies or errors in grading (ie Buk Choi should be GREEN).

I tend to look at the composition of the greens and fruits and veg (and insects) rather than being guided by the ranking given (colour , black vs green etc) as it is very easy when creating a list like that to make an error or to overlook something when grading the many options listed.

For the same reason , I also have used kale when it's in season too. I've also offered parley and regularly offer grated raw sweet potato.
 

Suzanne

Member
Original Poster
Thank you for your input - I'm so glad we have this type of forum to discuss and help one another! I wondered myself about Kale, too.

Thanks again! :D
 

SukiLove

Juvie Member
kingofnobbys":2fzifx5m said:
Pretty good, my lizards get a bit each day , but it's mixed other grated vegs.

A lot of the better listed greens are not available at the grocers here unfortunately.

I think there are some inconsistancies or errors in grading (ie Buk Choi should be GREEN).

I tend to look at the composition of the greens and fruits and veg (and insects) rather than being guided by the ranking given (colour , black vs green etc) as it is very easy when creating a list like that to make an error or to overlook something when grading the many options listed.

For the same reason , I also have used kale when it's in season too. I've also offered parley and regularly offer grated raw sweet potato.

I generally agree with your statement, as I don't believe that anything fed in moderation and variety is necessarily a bad thing. However, I think the reason that Bok choi (as well as other cabbages, broccoli, kale, etc.) is black in the scale instead of green is not because of its Ca:p ratio, but because it contains Goitrogens. Goitrogens inhibit the absorption of iodine and exposure of long periods of time can lead to Hypothyroidism, which can be fatal (but not necessarily a given).

Now, I'm not disagreeing with you that a well-rounded diet that covers all the spectrum of nutrition is ever a bad thing. But I think the reasoning behind the scaling provided on that website (and many others) is with the basic generalization that most people even if well-intentioned, don't always completely understand a whole healthy diet and are not always as vigilant to their animals needs or deficiencies. So to err on the side of caution its easier to say Dandelion greens/Mustard greens/Collards etc. can be given daily while Kale, Buk Choi, Spinach should be given sparingly. Just because you are well-educated and vigilant in your animals health and well being, doesn't mean that everyone else is. I see it as kind of a safe guard for the animals well being in general. There are, unfortunately, a lot of pet owners who don't put the time in to fully understand the nutritional needs of the animals they brought into their lives.

Does that mean that I don't feed a wide variety to my animal? No, of course not. I feed Kale and Spinach and Bok Choi to my dragons and their feeders too. But I am also aware that the long term effects of only feeding those foods have a higher risk to the overall health of the animal. Is it guaranteed? No. But all animals are individuals and their requirements vary. A healthy variety is the key.

Hopefully I didn't come off argumentative, I don't mean it and I certainly don't think you are doing anything wrong by your reptiles! I just think the reasoning behind the scaling is important. :D
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
Suki, I agree 100% but it always strikes me as ironic that other brassicas get the green light. (collard/mustard/turnip/endive) when they are just as likely to have significant levels of goitrogens/oxalates. Feeding these daily doesn't seem much different from Bok Choy or Kale....
 

SukiLove

Juvie Member
Taterbug":1dvgw0j8 said:
Suki, I agree 100% but it always strikes me as ironic that other brassicas get the green light. (collard/mustard/turnip/endive) when they are just as likely to have significant levels of goitrogens/oxalates. Feeding these daily doesn't seem much different from Bok Choy or Kale....

I know, and that's why I still feed them, just not as often. -To clarify that statement: I never ALWAYS feed anything, I am constantly rotating their diet and watching for what works for them. Nero cannot seem to handle high water content greens, but Soleil can, as an example.

If I'm remembering correctly, other greens like collards/mustard/turnip/endive are less likely to carry such high levels because their leaf 'texture' and substance (components) are determined by the amount the plant is watered. So there is a broader scale of acceptable levels, but I would have to look into that more.

There is also a more recent study that shows that people with a healthy immune system are unaffected by the levels in cruciferous plants or even soy, but the immunocompromised are still at risk for hypothyroidism. I think the problem with nutrition is that it's not an exact science and there are too many variables for too many sources to give a detailed plan. I think it's safe to tell people to use a wide variety, and watch your animals for queues in their health. Nutritional guidelines are nothing but that, guidelines. They give you a starting point and you get to figure out the rest yourself. :)
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
Yep. Exactly.

For everything I've read "anti-nutrients" have so many variables (soil quality, temperature, water, predation, age) that it's seems almost impossible to really put a label on plants as easily as some food guides do. Not to mention "goitrogens" is a HUGE group of chemicals not all of which are flat out bad. Seems to lead to more restricted diets than varied ones. (Spinach, crappy as it is for calcium can be a natural source of iodine for example but look how vilified it is)

Having spent a fair bit of time reading about it makes the food guides seem more like very very basic starting points rather than the food bibles they are touted as. But that's just a personal rant. Heh.
 

SukiLove

Juvie Member
I think a main reason we have vilified certain nutrition sources is because its easier. I'm a big believer in nutritional balance over time. I don't believe every meal has to be balanced, as long as you aim for a well-rounded diet overall (I like to go by month, because its easier to see deficiencies by then) you are on the right track. I also think that circumstances and individual organisms matter. Would I feed a gravid female spinach that month? No, because of the higher oxalate count and possible complications with calcium absorption in a system already depleted to make eggs. Now, in a healthy non-gravid state would I feed spinach? Yes, unless the reptile is suffering/or has suffered from a calcium deficiency.

It's easier to say spinach is bad, cabbages in moderation, and fruit rarely because most people (not all) want efficiency. They want to be able to run in, get what they need and get out. Few take the time to consider what the nutritional content of the food they are feeding and how it's influenced by its source. So those who make up the nutritional guideline go with the most 'fool-proof' system they can to help with that animals life.

I don't mean to rant as well, lol. I love to discuss nutrition and all its aspects and influences, and lack of knowledge by the general public. (And I am really not trying to offend anyone! :) )
 
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