Diseased hornworms???

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Gemmarii

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Hi, guys. If any of ya'll remember me, I'm sorry I haven't been on in almost a year. I think about this place now and then, I've just always had a hard time making myself keep on top of forums and social media. Janeway and I are doing alright, it's just been a lot goin' on. I am working again after my car accident, but limited hours and weight restrictions, and Janeway and I seem to be getting along better now, she still doesn't like being held, but she's okay with being pet and still eats from my hand.

I was struggling to do some research on some feeder types and I stumbled upon a thread here, but not on what I was looking for, so I thought I'd start a new one and say hi.

It's hard for me to get to the petstore in town, especially since I can't drive anymore and have to try to connect my schedule with other people, and when I am able to get there, they're out of super worms. Every time for at least the last month if not longer. And the dubia roaches are pricey enough tbat I can't get them regularly and I refuse to feed her crickets anymore because it's problematic. They're too fast and smart and evasive and I honestly wonder if she has trouble seeing them if they aren't moving because she never seems to notice them until they take off and then she's too slow to catch them. And I'll check in her later and don't see any and assume she got them all and then when I go to bed, I wake up late because now that all the lights are out they come out and start singing and keep me up so I have to turn her lights on and wake her up and smash them with a rock so she can get them. So no crickets.

So I thought with how hard it is for me to get into town, I'd try looking around on Amazon, I order damn near everything from there anyway. And I did find a seller selling live hornworms, which I thought was great. I've never fed them to her before because the pet shop doesn't carry them but I know they're good. I placed my order on Saturday the fifth, kind of late at night, so I wasn't bothered when they didn't ship until Monday, because doi. But the estimated time of arrival changed. When I placed the order, it said estimated time of arrival was the 9th-14th, which I felt was already pushing it because I live in Wisconsin. But when it actually shipped, the etd was changed to the 14th-17th and I was pretty mad. And vecause of how understaffed the mid west sorting facilities are, I didn't get it until the 18th. Thankfully it actually hasn't been too cold this year, very few days as low as the 30's. When I got them, they weren't really moving however they warmed up and started moving within a minute and we were all relieved and excited. I let them warm up a while before giving any to Janeway, and they were plenty wiggly so I thought it was fine and she loved it.

But by the end of the night, they all seemed really lethargic and not really moving even though I had them under a light in a warm area and by the time I woke up the next morning, a bunch of them looked like they had stuff growing on them, so I didn't feed her any at all. I already started a claim with Amazon on Saturday, but it was sold by an independent party and I have to wait for them to respond. But now all of the hornworms look like they have something wrong with them except for one big guy that I moved to a cup of soil because I thought he was going to pupate. He still hasn't and he mostly just sits there, but he does change his position and he diesnt have any weird stuff on him or coming out of him.

Shoot, how do you post an image on here again? I remember it was really complicated.
 

Gemmarii

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Original Poster
And don't worry, up until the hornworms came in, she got fed salad and kale and since Friday was payday and I was already placing an Amazon order, I added a bunch of cans of Fluker's worms and grass hoppers and stuff to my order, they all had good reviews so beardies seem to really like them. I think I got grass hoppers, super worms, wax worms, river shrimp, and silk worms from a different brand that also has good reviews. They'll all be here today except the silkies.

And then last night I was at Wal-Mart, which is the rarest occurrence of all for me because all three of the closest ones are about an hour away, and I walked by the bait and I looked it up and found something saying most beardies love red worms, so I got a cup. I gave her one when I got home and she seemed to like it, but stared when I offered her a second, so I don't know if she didn't like it after all or if she wound up eating a piece of dirt and was second guessing.
 

Gemmarii

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Original Poster
106926-5239421180.jpg

I figured it out!
This is one of the pictures I took for the claim on Saturday, they're kind of looking worse now.
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
I would store them at room temperature in a well ventilated area. Did these ship in a cup that has food at the bottom and a lid with vent holes? I usually store mine in those with the food at the top. They climb a ladder to get to it and I can remove the poop pellets from the bottom by removing the lid. I store it propped up on the edges of hockey pucks (or books, or whatever is on hand) so the air vents are clear at the bottom. If they get too damp they tend to start dying off.

What you're seeing may be a result of shipping. They are usually dying when they go lighter in color and get very soft/mushy. They should feel somewhat firm on their skin. I discard the ones that get mushy. In the photo it looks like they are clinging to a poop pellet which is common. You can just pull it away from them and throw it out (keeping them stored inverted like I described helps with this). It also looks like they are shedding some skin which they do as they grow. Seeing shed bits of their skin fall to the bottom of the container is common as they get bigger. I doubt they are diseased or harmful. But just stick to feeding the ones that are fairly active and don't feel mushy.

It's rougher than usual right now with shipping. A lot of our stuff is massively delayed too, just sitting at the Des Moines sorting facility for weeks on end. Not a great time to ship via USPS. I just received an order from Great Lakes Hornworm (in Michigan) via FedEx and it arrived quickly. The worms were in a doubled box with some insulating paper and two heat packs. My order of black soldier fly larvae coming up from Texas is stuck in a sorting facility with USPS somewhere. They are pretty tough and should be OK as long as they are indoors somewhere though.
 

Gemmarii

Member
Original Poster
Yes, it did seem like some where clinging to poop but what worried me was a bunch seemed to have some kind of white growth. Shedding did not occur to me, I looked it up and that definitely seemed to be what it is. I just got home ten minutes ago from a long day and the ones left in the cup seem bigger, more lively, and thriving and yes I have it upside down. Thank you so much!
 

Gemmarii

Member
Original Poster
Yes, that is absolutely what it was, shedding. I went the the cricket carrier with the worst ones and a bunch of them looked better and I was able to transfer almost all of them back and I could see bits of shedded skin laying about. Some resorted to cannibalism though and there were ones being eaten and I feel really bad about having them in there without food now, but I genuinely thought that they were infected with some kind of parasite or fungus, it looked like something was growing on them, I thought that I was separating out the worst ones that were already dying and the reason I hadn't tossed them yet was because I thought I might need better pics for my claim on Amazon, which I now have to cancel. But at least I know now, we all learn hard out first time with a new feeder no matter how much research you think you did. Thanks again.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Yeah those look good + healthy so your supplier knew what he was doing. H.worms don't move much at all and when you see the brown stuff on them it's either the food or their own droppings. They basically eat, grow and poop. At the size you have there they will grow very large in a matter of days. The container they come in has the food stapled to the top so that's where they eat and their droppings fall to the bottom of the deli container which is the lid. You just open the lid bottom daily to let the droppings out. Sometimes a worm is at the bottom as well, it can't be avoided sometimes.
 
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