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Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:57 am
by kingofnobbys
Image

correct figures for silkworms
% protein = 53.8% (dry basis)
and 82.7% moisture.

Blowfly gents
H20 = 68.1%
fat = 7.8%
Protein = 15.6%
Ca/P = 0.36

HORNWORMS:
Moisture = 85%
Fat = 3%
Protein = 9%
9/15 = 60% protein (dry basis)
Ca/P = 0.333



Please feel free to add data or correct data.

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:33 pm
by CooperDragon

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:05 am
by kingofnobbys
Image
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Ref http://www.moonvalleyreptiles.com/crest ... er-insects

I never knew isopods were extremely rich in Calcium , Ca/P = 12.1

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:42 am
by CooperDragon
Wow, that's an impressive ratio!

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:28 am
by kingofnobbys
CooperDragon wrote:Wow, that's an impressive ratio!


Too bad their exoskeletons are like armourplating ....

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:07 am
by CooperDragon
Yeah. If they can manage through a few of them now and then, it might be good for dental health the way the morio worm beetles are.

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:20 pm
by Taterbug
There are lots of varieties of isopods, even the hard shelled rolly polly type owns (Armadillidium spp.) aren't any harder than other feeders. Pepper makes quick work of them and will wait for them to come out to be picked off when I water his setup. There are many species available and they are rather simple to culture.... but probaly much slower than roaches/BSFL/morio worms.

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:01 am
by AHBD
I've used the isopods at times as well, the [ roly poly ] and some of my dragons really enjoy them.

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:52 pm
by kingofnobbys
A medium sized silkworm will be about 2in long and is a lot of protein cf a medium sized cricket

A 30mm long silkworm is 0.5g = 2-3 medium crickets (12x MED = 3g)
A 40mm long silkworm is 1.3g = 5-6 medium crickets
a 2 inch long silkworm is 1.8g
a large silkworm about 3in is 2.3g = 8 - 10 medium crickets

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:38 am
by kingofnobbys

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:22 pm
by kingofnobbys
more info on Butterworms

Being wild-caught, Butterworms likely provide nutrients absent from commercially-reared insects. They also exceed all other typical feeder insects in calcium content (please see Introduction, above), with only silkworms and phoenix worms approaching them in this regard (some find silkworms to be delicate, and phoenix worms are quite small, but both are also worth investigating).
The Butterworm’s protein content of 16.2% is on par with that of crickets, phoenix worms and waxworms, and below that provided by silkworms and roaches. Fat content stands at 5.21%, which is less than (considerably so, in many cases) that of all other commonly-used feeders.

extract from http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatrepti ... cn-RjGsWHs

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:42 am
by CooperDragon
There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:00 am
by kingofnobbys
CooperDragon wrote:There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30



I''d be inclined to believe the data that is published by someone who is not trying to sell them. They wont have an vested interest and are less likely to tell porkies.

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:23 pm
by kingofnobbys
I've a good pocket assayers' scale (weighs +/- 0.05g) and I did a comparison at one stage that you might find helpful to work out how many of different sizes silkworms to buy as an alternative insect protein source for your bearded dragon , see below
Image

Re: Comparison of common feeders

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:55 am
by Taterbug
kingofnobbys wrote:
CooperDragon wrote:There is a lot of conflicting info to sift through about Butterworms. This chart shows them at 29.4% fat and 15.5% protein. I'm not sure how accurate these results are either http://www.geckotime.com/nutritional-value-of-commercially-raised-insects/

There has been discussion about this in the past that didn't really come to a solid conclusion but lead me to stop offering them as a feeder on a regular basis although they are probably fine as part of a varied diet as are most things with moderation.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=203509&start=30



I''d be inclined to believe the data that is published by someone who is not trying to sell them. They wont have an vested interest and are less likely to tell porkies.


There are really only two data sets out there.

That first link is about as accurate as it gets. The author is a researcher who has many publications in the field of insectivores nutrition and insect nutritional content. I’ve corresponded with him on numerous occasions, starting with this exact topic.

The second link doesn’t cite its source at all, but the data stating that butterworms have a low fat content goes back to the vendors which was provided to them by the chillean exporters, regardless of what site the data is found on. That data is also inaccurate. Mathematically the values do not pass a basic test (fat+protein+ash+moisture = 100%). Even without a vested interest in these bugs that data has been spread around the internet a lot. It is in this forum and numerous others; all without any corroboration or with sources that all basically go back to vendors selling the bugs.

Physiologically butterworms do not posses the means to have such a high calcium content, unlike isopods and black soldierfly larvae. Insect larvae that do not need to eat for long periods of time, tend to be high in fat to meet their energy needs.