Rankin Dragon - Lawsons Dragon- QUESTION?

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Pogona brevis or Pogona henrylawsoni , I hope I picked the right section. I dont know where this best fit.
Years ago I used to breed Rankins. I had adults that had coloring in them. It became a major discussion on Fauna that they were considered to not be "pure" Rankin, but generations before mixed with Bearded Dragon. I sold all mine, even my breeders.
Now years later I aquired a female. (no color). I have been looking to purchase more for almost a year. I found someone who was selling a adult male and 7 babies. I saw pics on kingsnake. The seller said they were new from a UK bloodline. I purchased the adult male, and one baby. When I recieved them I noticed a different head structure on the adult than any Rankin I have ever had. He has fatty side jowles on his neck and he is able to portrude his lover neck- just like how Bearded Dragons push out their beard. It is my understanding that Rankins dont have the cartiledge in their necks to be able to do this. My concern is that I have yet again aquired some "Drankins".
Can anyone direct me to a site that would better explain the neck makeup of the 2, or someone who is an expert? At the bottom of the page on my website I am posting the first 2 pictures of my adult female. She looks like all the other Rankins I have had except no color. The 2nd 2 pictures are the male in question. The baby is 2 inches, so I am unable to tell yet, but supposedly from the same bloodlines as the adult male.
http://www.freewebs.com/rivercityreptiles/availabledragons.htm
Thank you for your help.
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Topic moved to Lawsons/Rankin forum
Yes I see exactly what you are referring to.He does appear to have the vitticeps beard although his pattern is distinctly Rankins.I dont know if its just the pic but there also appears to be a bit of a color morph to him as well.It may be possible that the UK bloodlines do indeed have vitticeps mixed in.Have you gone onto the UK reptile forum to see if there are any discussions?How about Fauna?
I do have to say one thing regardless of his lines he is a very handsome fella and I personally would have no issue purchasing his offspring at all but thats just me :D
 

reptileaddictions

Member
Original Poster
Can you give me a link to the UK forum. I am not familiar with it. I am saddened to say I found some pics of babies the same seller has that are clearly too colorful to be all rankin. :(
attachment.php
 

CalienteDragons

Hatchling Member
reptileaddictions":6d679 said:
Can you give me a link to the UK forum. I am not familiar with it. I am saddened to say I found some pics of babies the same seller has that are clearly too colorful to be all rankin. :(
attachment.php



This is the same post I posted n the other forum:

Hey Jeane,

I need to correct you on something, The Adult male you received from me is not in any way related to the baby you got, I told you this in on conversation over the phone, I also stated that I don't know the back ground on him.. He does puff his chin out at bit because he is a nasty little bugger! But in my opinion, and by looking at all the rankin's I have here, even the imported ones, they all have a little bit of a beard, nothing like a bearded dragon, but there is a bit of one. I looked him over real good and he looked full Rankins to me, If he does have some pogona in him like 3 or 4 generations back like you suggested, there is no way for me to know that.. So no I would not call him a Drankin.. Do you have a picture of a Drankin to compare?
Also a little note on color, Yes the babies hatch with a little hint of color but they do not keep this color it fades out as they age ( even within a couple months)
And the whole reason I had purchased the imports is to breed new lines that are not related to the us lines..




Heidi
 

reptileaddictions

Member
Original Poster
I understood that the 2 rankins I got are "unrelated", I still think they are both hybrids. The adult male, based on his neck structure, the baby based on the colors.

I found some good info and photos on dragon huts website. She has pure rankins, as well as one she believes is a hybrid.She also has a sub adult male for sale, as comparison photos with the male you sent me you see a clearly different head/neck structure on hers compared to the male i got from Calientedragons/you. And based on baby pics, you will clearly see that pure rankins do NOT have any color.

"Meadow was sold to me as a pure Rankin's Dragon I am unsure of her exact background. She has the typical Rankin's patterning but does not look like the others and is a bit bigger although not by much. Although her previous owner claimed she was never bred, she came to me gravid and had a clutch last year but since then I have decided to not breed her due to the fact that there is limited availability of Rankin's in the US and she may be a hybrid, possibly a vitticeps. She not currently breeding but is a sweet and beloved pet."

PICTURE OF MEADOW- THE POSSIBLE HYBRID http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...743/228620.jpg

AN ADULT MALE FOR SALE AT DRAGON HUT http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...43/5201716.jpg

AN ADULT MALE FOR SALE AT DRAGON HUT http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...43/6368753.jpg

AN ADULT MALE FOR SALE AT DRAGON HUT http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...43/1071492.jpg

PURE RANKIN BABIES- NOTICE NO COLOR http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...43/4848220.jpg

PURE RANKIN BABIES- NOTICE NO COLOR http://www.thedragonhut.com/uploads/...43/5735290.jpg
 

CalienteDragons

Hatchling Member
WOW Jeane,
Can you get your story straight? You just said you understand they are not related, but in your first post you said they supposedly are? Also on the phone we discussed the fact that they have color when they hatch, you said yours did too! Its funny you use Char's Rankins as an example, a few of my Rankin's are from Char and their babies hatched with hints of color too..
You got what I advertised, I sent you two RANKINS! You can argue all you want but in no way did I miss-lead you. If in fact they have bearded dragon lines in generations down the line, It is impossible to know that, you saw the picture with the babies having color so why did you make your purchase? That picture is of them barley out of the egg, does yours have color now? I was fair and offered you a refund not because I agree with you but because you are unhappy with your purchase and I want everyone to be happy..

I can not believe how you have just lied with what you wrote and our phone conversation! I think it is fair that you post this to get other opinions, but why be dishonest? I don’t get it?
 

vickson420

BD.org Addict
Retired Moderator
Ok folks lets not start a war out her in the open.I recommend if there is personal buisness to be done then it be handled via PM.We here all know genetics are a very difficult issue to clearly identify and in many cases it is going to be impossible to know the entire lineage.I dont want to see this spiral into a public flame war,it wont do either party any good.

Thank you
-Vicky
 

reptileaddictions

Member
Original Poster
Let me make this clear I DID NOT see the fauna posted colored rankins ad until YESTERDAY. What appears to be confusing you is that I THINK the baby rankin you sent us is related to the baby rankins with color you have posted on Fauna for sale. I am not/was not trying to state that the adult male is related to the baby. If I confsed anyone, my apology.
Also it has been well documented on fauna that we used to sell UNPURE rankins that had color. The Rankins we sold WITH COLOR were NOT 100% PURE RANKINS. Can I make that any more clear????

100% Rankins do not have jowels, beards, or color. As hatchlings or adults.
 

TheDragonHut

Hatchling Member
I just want to clarify something from your above statement. I do not state 'pure' Rankin's Dragons on any of my breeders or the Rankin's Dragons that I have for sale. There has been some hybridization of Rankin's in the US and unfortunately some individuals have not been honest about this when selling in the past which can be a problem for others not wishing to purchase hybrids. I only know the lineage that has been told to me at the time of purchase of any of my current breeders. This is the lineage I pass on to customers as honestly as possible. If I do not have lineage then that is passed onto the customer as well (in which case no lineage is given). I do not know for a fact that just b/c my breeders do not display color that they are pure. I do not know for sure that slight coloration at the time of hatching that later disappears makes them impure either. I would be interested in an expert opinion on these issues.

In the case of Meadow, the seller was obviously dishonest, stating she was a 'pure Rankin's' which would be hard to prove. She looks totally different from the other Rankin's Dragons in my collection and she came gravid and laid fertile eggs as well. The seller claimed she had never laid eggs and had never been with a male. I felt at the time and still feel that she is a cross even though her babies did not show color at the time of hatching, some displayed the typical bowtie pattern while others had zigzag patterns.

Some of my pairings produce a few babies with color that disappears at about age 3-4 mos of age and other pairings produce no color or little variation in the overall color or lack thereof(light vs darker overall tone as opposed to coloration) in clutchmates. I have seen pattern variation other than the bowtie such as a zigzag or partial zigzag patterning. I have no information as to whether or not this occurs in the wild or if any hatchlings in the wild ever display any coloration.
 

thestranger10101

Juvie Member
Heidi -

I just wanted to say, that the one you sent me is perfect !!!! Great eater. I dont know what all this talk is about to be honest. But thank you again. She is incredible to watch. Thank you for everthing. I dont see what beard you guys are talking about. Maybe i am just a happy owner !!!

If you have another i would love the unrelated one like you said. They are awsome !!!

If you can send it out before my son leaves again for Denmark that would be great :)
I apreciate you turning me on to them. And now i need knob tails.

Mike
Sunshinedragons
 
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