Fluker's Liquid Calcium - Help with MBD?

Hi all, first time posting here.

My beardie, Mushu, is showing signs of MBD. His back legs have been swollen off and on for the past month, and they recently started twitching. I didn't suspect an issue until the twitching began.

I have him in a ~120 gallon wooden enclosure with a 34" T5 HO UVB, 100W MVB, and a 75W CHE. The warm side of his enclosure is ~100F and the cool side ~80F. I previously had been dusting his crickets 2x per week with calcium and dusting his daily veggies everyday; however, I suspect that the lack of dietary calcium is what's causing his MBD. I'm now dusting his crickets whenever he is in the mood to eat them (everyday to every other day).

I ordered Fluker's Liquid Calcium in hopes of giving him a dose everyday by syringe. However, the box only recommends using the product with food or water. Product ingredients are Water, Calcium Chloride, and Calcium Lactate (Calcium not less than 6%).

Would I be hurting or helping Mushu if I give him this product via syringe? I tried using it on his veggies, but he stops eating the veggies once he tastes the product. This is why I'm hoping to use the syringe. Also, what dose would be recommended? Mushu is 9mo old and 19inches long... and I would suspect he weighs about 200g.

Note that Mushu has shown no other surficial signs of MBD, he's still active, alert and not deformed or frail looking. But I want to reverse this before it gets worse.

Thank you for any an all help!
Ryan

Once MBD has set in it cannot be reversed -- it can however be prevented from getting worse -- Mushu needs insects every day --- dust w/ calcium D3 5 x per week ONCE per feeding - he should be getting protein every day hes too young to not be getting them every other day -- vitamins w/ beta carotene 2 x per week -- Tracie needs to address the liquid calcium issue -- will eat the insects w/ calcium powder on them --- if he does just increase the insects -- dont bother powdering the veggies its better to dust the insects you know he will eat those -- UVB should be 12-15 inches directly above the basking decor so he can absorb that calcium hes ingesting --- that is inside the tank -- if its on top of screen the screen MUST be wide holed --- I am going to flag the post to Tracie so she can advise on the liquid calcium

Thank you for the advice.

Mushu eats the insects dusted with calcium, but some days he refuses to eat insects and will only go for the veggies. I offer him crickets at least twice per day on days that he doesn't eat on the first try. He's maintained his weight so far, but obviously this hasn't fared well for his calcium levels.

His main basking spot is about 12in under the UVB tube, and he can also climb to about 12in under the 100W MVB bulb (this is between the "high sun" and "moderate sun" ranges according to the Zoomed package). The mesh is 1/4 inch hardware cloth, so it shouldn't be blocking much UVB.

The vet I took him to when he was younger recommended no D3 in the calcium, so I am using calcium without D3 (though I have a jar with D3). I also have the vitamin powder with beta carotene, but I was only dusting 1x per week with that. I will increase to two. I assume that switching to the calcium powder with D3 will help too?

The fact that he refuses insects some days is why I was thinking the syringe with liquid calcium would be the best option.

Please give the D3 --- your UVB is what helps him absorb / synthesize the calcium --- and he should be getting the D3 -- usually till at least a year then w/ the T 5 your using it can be switched to the w/ out D3 NO phosphorus ---- but for now give that D3 -- your screen is blocking approx 30% of the UVB rays -- what is the brand of the MVB please

Will do with the D3. For the MVB, it's a 100W ZooMed PowerSun.

Here is an image of his setup and another of him. The MVB is about 10in from the closest edge of the hammock and about 20in from the wood and rock below. The T5 is toward the back of his viv. Is there anything I could improve for his decor/space?

The rocks below the MVB stay at ~95F and the hammock is ~100F.

I really appreciate your help and the flag for Tracie. Unfortunate to hear that MBD can't be reversed, but if I can reduce any pain he has and prevent any more damage that'd be great

The T 5 is on top of the screen I would get it moved into the tank or remove the screen - he's not getting enough uvb if he's showing signs of mbd- w/out the screen place a piece of basking decor directly underneath- where is he sitting to bask on the hammock? I am thinking 20 inches is too far - and the T 5 should have a distance of 8-10 inches directly underneath for the screen BUT IT MUST be a wide hole screen - if it's a fine mesh the UVB rays are being blocked by 30%

Hello,

You have a very nice tank. That is too bad he is having some trouble!
The distance of the T5 is too far from him so as suggested, it would be very helpful to
move the light closer. The MVB is a nice bright light, & the Powersun is fine. It isn't a
real strong UVB but that is ok since you are using the T5 that combination is good. Which
T5 brand of tube bulb are you using?
What is your dragon's weight? Can you look on the label of the Fluker's calcium to see if
it has any mg/ml information? Or, it may have PPM, listed, I am not sure.

Tracie

Hi,

The T5 is a Zoomed Reptisun 10.0 (2 mo old). After the helpful comments yesterday, I found this chart from Zoomed that shows the approximate UVI at different distances from Zoomed products: https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/Choosing-Correct-UVB-Lamp-2018-07.pdf

Obviously I was way off on the distances -- Today I moved the T5 inside the tank and elevated his hammock so it's about 6" from the T5. He seems much more comfortable now, and he's not holding his head up high while basking like he had been.

For the Fluker's liquid calcium solution, there isn't any ppm or mg/mL listings, but after some research it looks like "6% calcium" equals about 60 mg/mL or 60,000 ppm (too high for drops?). I'll confirm his weight before administering any drops, but I think he is about 300g.

And thank you on the tank! Mushu has been spoiled with almost everything but UVB :/

Ok for your T 5 its too close w/ 6" -- T 5's should be a distance of 12-15 inches -- you have the T 5 set up for a T 8 they require the 6-8 inches

Shoot ok, I moved it back down to ~10 inches... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this PDF here shows that 5"-8" is best for a beardie basking under a T5 10.0. Maybe the PDF underestimates the UVIs?

https://zoomed.com/wp-content/uploads/Choosing-Correct-UVB-Lamp-2018-07.pdf

yes I was looking at that but from going w/ experience we have always recommended the 12-15- I have mine set up w/ the 12-15 range and it seems to work for them --- no issues and they have been set up this way for years--- I still say the 12-15 --- try the 10" and watch his behavior- if he gets to where hes not basking like he should then I would adjust it to the 12- the T 5's are pretty strong -- his behavior is going to show you --

Hello,

How is your boy doing today?
I think a distance of 10 inches unobstructed will be fine. Just be sure it is alongside of his
basking light for him.
Sure please check Mushu's weight & I can dose him estimated by the label so you will be
much closer to an ideal calcium intake for him. Do you have any plastic 1ml syringes to use?

Tracie