Green Cloud in Pupil: 2020 Update - Blind and Enlarged Eye!

Discuss health questions, issues, problems, etc! For urgent issues please use the Beardie ER forum.

Green Cloud in Pupil: 2020 Update - Blind and Enlarged Eye!

Postby Varalidaine » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:53 am

Hello,

Today while holding my dragon, I noticed a greenish yellow cloudiness in his right pupil. His eating habits have not changed, he still hunts with excitement, and his winter slow down has been quite normal. I don't typically stare intently at his eyes and since his behavior was fine, I didn't think to do a careful inspection, so I have no idea how long his eye has been like this. It's not a film over the eye, it's in/behind the pupil. It seems similar to cataract but those seem to usually be a more cloudy blue with undefined edges and this spot is pretty defined and more of a greenish/yellow color. He has a vet appointment tonight, but I thought I would post to get some opinions.

His habitat is a 4x2x2 with an Arcadia 12% mounted inside with a normal fluorescent UVA bulb for added light. Heat lamp is a 50 watt Halogen and gets his basking spot about 98-105. I also have a CHE running 24/7 next to his basking light to give more ambient heat as the house gets chilly. He also gets outside time a few days a week for about 30 mins in the sun. Substrate is tile, main diet is various greens 4x a week and dubia 2x a week. I dust calcium on the dubia for one feeding and multi vitamins on the next dubia feeding. Insects are gut loaded with Repashy Superload.

Image
Image
Last edited by Varalidaine on Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Varalidaine
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:16 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:59 pm

I'm not sure what that is. I just checked my dragon's eye and it is dark black throughout the center. It's good that he is still hunting well and appears to be able to see OK. I don't have enough info to know if that is harmful or not though. I'd be interested to hear what your vet thinks of it.
Image
User avatar
CooperDragon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 26345
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Iowa City, IA

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby Varalidaine » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:23 pm

Yeah, his other eye is completely black in the pupil as well. I feel guilty because I have no idea how long it could had been like this. It's such a small area, it easily could have been that way for months and just slowly gotten bigger. He had surgery on that side of his mouth a few months ago. I wonder if that has anything to do with it...
User avatar
Varalidaine
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:16 pm

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby HippieLizards » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:54 pm

Wow I have no idea what that is.. could he be possibly be going blind in that eye? 🤔 Please keep us posted.
Slave and Personal janitor to Five Beardies, one Crested gecko, one leopard gecko, three Betta fish, a Cat, a Ball python, and a community fish tank. (R.I.P my precious Thor, Cisco, & Ruby. You three will always be in our hearts).
User avatar
HippieLizards
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:03 am
Location: South of Neptune, Hidden away in my magical dragon lair.

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby AHBD » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:18 pm

How old is he ?
AHBD
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 25690
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:20 am

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby Varalidaine » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:24 pm

He's only 3!
User avatar
Varalidaine
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:16 pm

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby HippieLizards » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:38 pm

Varalidaine wrote:He's only 3!

Hmm.. could he have like had an overexposure to a light that was in his eye for some time to cause temporary blindness? That is really strange. 🤔
Slave and Personal janitor to Five Beardies, one Crested gecko, one leopard gecko, three Betta fish, a Cat, a Ball python, and a community fish tank. (R.I.P my precious Thor, Cisco, & Ruby. You three will always be in our hearts).
User avatar
HippieLizards
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:03 am
Location: South of Neptune, Hidden away in my magical dragon lair.
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:55 pm

Cataracts ? …. so long as they are not covering the pupil …. not an issue but may be indicative of a vitamin deficiency.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/45e5/1 ... 285a4d.pdf
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : , Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Gutzy (F) rescued 27Sep19 - RIP 3Aug20 (est 12 yo), Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
kingofnobbys
BD.org Sicko
 
Posts: 12618
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:54 pm

I just spoke with my Optometrist and showed him the photo. He said it looks like reflection off of a mass. Since it is happening in only one eye and appeared recently then it is likely a trauma related cataract. This is just an educated guess though. He told me that cataracts tend to happen in both eyes at the same time unless they are trauma related. He sees similar issues in humans when they get hit in the eye by a racquetball for example.
Image
User avatar
CooperDragon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 26345
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Iowa City, IA

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby HippieLizards » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:11 pm

CooperDragon wrote:I just spoke with my Optometrist and showed him the photo. He said it looks like reflection off of a mass. Since it is happening in only one eye and appeared recently then it is likely a trauma related cataract. This is just an educated guess though. He told me that cataracts tend to happen in both eyes at the same time unless they are trauma related. He sees similar issues in humans when they get hit in the eye by a racquetball for example.
Fascinating! :study:
Slave and Personal janitor to Five Beardies, one Crested gecko, one leopard gecko, three Betta fish, a Cat, a Ball python, and a community fish tank. (R.I.P my precious Thor, Cisco, & Ruby. You three will always be in our hearts).
User avatar
HippieLizards
Gray-bearded Poster
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:03 am
Location: South of Neptune, Hidden away in my magical dragon lair.

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby Js16 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:45 am

CooperDragon wrote:I just spoke with my Optometrist and showed him the photo. He said it looks like reflection off of a mass. Since it is happening in only one eye and appeared recently then it is likely a trauma related cataract. This is just an educated guess though. He told me that cataracts tend to happen in both eyes at the same time unless they are trauma related. He sees similar issues in humans when they get hit in the eye by a racquetball for example.


I recently noticed my dragons one eye looks the same as your photo. Have you noticed any improvements or is the trauma related cataract something that is permanent?
Js16
Newbie Poster
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil

Postby CooperDragon » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:48 pm

Thread unlocked by moderator at OP request.
Image
User avatar
CooperDragon
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 26345
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:41 am
Location: Iowa City, IA

Re: Green Cloud in Pupil: 2020 Update - Blind and Enlarged E

Postby Varalidaine » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:59 pm

2020 Update:

Hello all,

It has been awhile since I first started this thread. I didn't update it for the longest time because everywhere I went, I was getting nowhere with vets. So here's the story so far. It's a long one!

October 2018 Vet #1
After initially posting we went to an exotic vet. She thought it looked to be a cataract, which has any number of causes, and was not worried about an ulcer, infection or anything dangerous. We left with a "wait and watch" plan.

November 2018 Vet#2
We took him to see an eye specialist/ophthalmologist. The eye had changed by this point with the cloud becoming grey, no longer green, and looking very murky instead of a clearly defined circle. This was difficult to photograph but I find it very odd that it went from such a clearly defined green circle to faint streaky grey clouds. The ophthalmologist did a pressure test to check for glaucoma but the pressure was the same in both eyes. He also diagnosed a cataract and said it was nothing to worry about. By this point I noticed he would squint this eye or keep it closed more often than the other eye so it appeared to bother him. He was prescribed once daily diclofenac drops in his eye for pain.
Image

Early 2019 Vet #3
I notice the eye appears to be getting larger than the other one. I take him to a different reptile vet who did not think it was any larger and says the same things: cataract with nothing to worry about. Keep doing the eye drops if it appears to bother him.

September 2019 Vet #4
I am convinced the right eye is larger, at least the tissue surrounding it or SOMETHING is larger. I took this photo to try and demonstrate that and you can see how the right eyelid area (the one on the left of the photo) appears fuller and rounder while the healthy eye is more diagonal. I take him to a different ophthalmologist who says the eye does not appear larger but maybe the eyelid or surrounding tissue is inflamed. He also thinks it's a cataract likely due to trauma or potentially just genetic/a birth defect. He does an eye pressure test which comes back normal. He prescribes 2x daily ketorolac eye drops for pain. By this point he appears to be blind in this eye.
Image

February 2020
Ecco goes in for a yearly checkup and the vet (#3) says he CLEARLY has a mass behind his eye and he would like to remove the eye and the mass. He did not want to do diagnostic testing as he said it was inaccurate on such small animals. I am uncomfortable with this and decide to get a second opinion. His pupil is now completely grey and almost has flecks in it, like mica or granite. The pupil does not dilate when exposed to light and the eye is dropped permanently in a down and back position, showing the "white" of his eye around the iris.
Image

March 2020
We go back to vet #4/opthalmologist #2 to get a second opinion. He says there is nothing that indicates a mass to him and suggests we could do an MRI. We instead opt for a CT scan as MRI's are not effective on reptiles as they rely on water content. The use iodine as a contrast. The results were that his right eye, the blind one, is 2 millimeters larger in diameter than the healthy eye. There were no signs of a mass around eye/the eye socket appeared normal. Here are some possibilities:
1. Glaucoma. He somehow developed a cataract, which could have caused irritation in the eye, causing swelling, which caused pressure, which forced the eye to grow. His last pressure test still had low pressure which did not indicate glaucoma but the pressure in the right eye was slightly higher by I think 1 or 2 points.
2. A mass IN the eye. The CT was not able to get a clear picture of the pupil/lens. This could be due to a cataract or the cataract leaking outside of it's pocket, which could be obscuring a mass within the eye. But he said it does not look like a mass, but it's possible there is one in the eye that is causing the eye to grow as the mass grows.
3. Who even knows, it's weird.
We left with again just waiting and watching.

Mid 2020 Vet #5
Me being the paranoid pet parent that I am, we went to see one last person. He thought that at some point Ecco may have luxated his lens, which is when the lens gets tilted in the eye. This can cause the fluids in the eye to build pressure as it changes how fluids flow around the lens. The swelling and inflammation caused scar tissue, which is why his pupil is rigid and does not respond to light. He suspects that over time the eye will begin to shrink as the scaring increases. He suggested stopping the eye drops if they weren't helping, and by this point Ecco keeps that eye closed for 90% of the time so it seems as if they aren't helping. He noted that since Ecco is ADV positive, it's very possible that the ADV is just messing up otherwise healthy parts of him. He suspects that overall he will live a shorter life but noted that he looked in great condition besides the eye. We did bloodwork to rule out any latent/long term infection and everything came back normal (his CK/creatine kinase was very high at 3658 but that can easily be triggered by stress and that appointment was particularly long as the vet was very behind and Ecco had been stressing with three car trips within two days so I suspect it was just that).

September 2020
Here we are now almost two years later. Ecco still seems to be doing well besides the eye. He still eats with enthusiasm. But he has been grumpier the past year and is overall a bit lethargic and dark. And particularly the last few days he does not open the eye. His eyelid area looks very inflamed to me and it's clear it bothers him. I don't know how to help him and I'm upset that this ever happened especially since we don't know why or even what it is. There is still the possibility of a mass within the eye but I'm not keen on removing the eye since that really puts his life at risk going under for surgery. And there's no guarantee that would take the pain away as I'm sure having a hole in your head comes with it's own complications. Has anyone ever seen anything like this? 5 different vets and crazy expensive tests have not helped us. I know he will never regain his sight, and that's fine as he functions pretty well without it, but I don't want him to be in pain.
Image
User avatar
Varalidaine
Juvie Poster
 
Posts: 355
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:16 pm
- Advertisement -
- Advertisement -


Return to Health

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users