Brumation or Sick is the question

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i'm pretty new at this. 4 months into it. Adopted from my daughters classmate and researched hours on end for the best set up for Norman.

i bought everything from Carolina custom cages -

tank: 36x18x18
22" T5HO UVB+Single GU10 basking light fixture
75w halogen basking bulb
Zoomed Reptisun 10.0 UVB T5HO florescent tube

i'm in California and noticed about 2 weeks ago Norman was not his usual self. He wasn't moving (very lethargic) around much or eating. Even Dubias :shock: and only wanted to stay on the cool side. I started getting a little worried, until one morning about 2 hours from when is basking light turns on, my daughter came to me and was holding him saying mom i just found him on the bottom of the tank and his beard and tail were jet black and his body all light white. i said that is not normal and rushed him to the vet! Before all this happened he pooped but i had cleaned it :( wish i saved it for a fiscal test!
anyway the vet said he was very dehydrated and for me to wait till he poops to see if he has parasites to test. they suggested we feed him fluids and hope he poops and they put him on Omnivore. Two days go by no poop.Than later that day after or vet visit at 5pm he started having these gasping attacks that were disturbing to watch! vet had been closed. Then Tuesday 9 am May 12 i took him in again and they suggest and X-ray.
results:
all good- calcium and bones look good no impaction except reparatory infection
i started doing the container and fogger with silver Colloidal for 20 min
then id feed him the Omnivore Care. And every time i'd feed him 1ml within 40 to an hour he'd have these gasping for air episodes!
the vet said stop feeding him and he got better and his coloring came back (12 hours).
Wednesday i told the vet he's doing so much better. She said start feeding him again. so i did. guess what the breathing episodes are happening again. this time he never really came to and is limp and is in a deep sleep.
the vet recommend i don't touch him but still wants to give him every 3 days Ceftazidime 100mg/ml for 10 days. so one month.
i'm at a loss if he's burmating during a time of a RI or just really ill.
Plus i'm still baffled as to how he got it.
i have a laser temperatures reader and his basking side is 98-102 middle 85 cool 78
i do wonder tho if his UVB bulb is too close to his highest point where he likes to sit most of the day. He's never seemed to like high temps he always hangs off the side of the hammock. never basks right under his basking light.
so here i am at a loss any suggestions is so appreciated.
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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
I am not sure at whats going on w/ him but I will say the UVB is too close for a T 5 -- distance should be 12-15 inches from basking decor---- so I would get the basking decor adjusted for the T 5--- humidity can be as high as 70% in the tank but no higher -- do you have the Xrays etc from the vet office I would post them so Tracie can see them --- she is our vet moderator and can give advice as to what she thinks is going on ---
Karrie
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":1xlhui0n said:
I am not sure at whats going on w/ him but I will say the UVB is too close for a T 5 -- distance should be 12-15 inches from basking decor---- so I would get the basking decor adjusted for the T 5--- humidity can be as high as 70% in the tank but no higher -- do you have the Xrays etc from the vet office I would post them so Tracie can see them --- she is our vet moderator and can give advice as to what she thinks is going on ---
Karrie
thanks Karrie i will call the vet to get the X-ray. I took him in this morning for his second shot of Ceftazidime. the Dr. said the signs of him gasping is not normal behavior when burmating. i asked specifically if she saw that he has RI and she said no we'd have to do some "Infusion" (maybe the wrong word) but sounded like its not a guarantee that it is that from an XRAY.
He is super limp and when i took him to the vet he opened his eyes and moved a bit, but not much. he's back in his hammock resting.
I'll lower his high point on his vine. right now i measured 5 inches :shock:
probably not good, and getting to much UVB
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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
That is way too close -- you need to lower the basking decor to 12-15 inches --- please post the Xrays for Tracie -- it sounds like a RI but I am not a vet Tracie would need to see those Xrays --- did you get blood work done if so get that as well and post --- has he had any mucous coming out of his nose or mouth bubbles in the mouth ?? Or just the gasping?
Karrie
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":2mujyzdf said:
That is way too close -- you need to lower the basking decor to 12-15 inches --- please post the Xrays for Tracie -- it sounds like a RI but I am not a vet Tracie would need to see those Xrays --- did you get blood work done if so get that as well and post --- has he had any mucous coming out of his nose or mouth bubbles in the mouth ?? Or just the gasping?
Karrie
i just requested the vet email me the X-rays. And no i have not done any bloodwork yet. she said i should see how he's doing today without feeding him the Ominivore care and if he has no more gasping episodes. so far he is awake and has moved to the basking side! this is new. First time he's active in 2 days. And remember he just had a shot at 9:30 am and its 11:35 and he became alert. this picture was just taken. His temp. is reading 93º at his position.
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adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":14rm7i8d said:
has he had any mucous coming out of his nose or mouth bubbles in the mouth ?? Or just the gasping?
Karrie
he has never had bubbles or mucous come out of anywhere, just gasping. i wish i could upload videos
thank you so much for your time!! :D
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Basking temps should be 95-110-- you can upload a video on YouTube post the link here
Karrie
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":1e5oxcxb said:
Basking temps should be 95-110-- you can upload a video on YouTube post the link here
Karrie
i was slightly off. its reading 102º
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and i just lowered his decor :D under the UVB bulb.
he has changed so much since his 9:30 shot. He's active and his coloring is beautiful. He is moving from his basking side to the middle of the tank reading at 91º on the vine decor.
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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Your making progress--- sometimes hammocks do not give proper basking temps- if you can move the basking bulb over that log and get a temp there would be great
Karrie
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":11nzlzt8 said:
Your making progress--- sometimes hammocks do not give proper basking temps- if you can move the basking bulb over that log and get a temp there would be great
Karrie
i cant do that as this set up is all in one inside the tank.
the UVB bulb is connected to the 75w basking bulb as pictured. when i do my reading im putting the beam on him directly. is that not considered accurate?
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KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
No your getting his temp- accurate temps for basking are crucial- I don't recommend hammocks I know people like to use them but they are or can be harmful w/ nails getting caught etc plus trying to get accurate basking temps - do you have a digital probe thermometer? You can place that on the spot he sits for 10 minutes and that will give you an accurate temp- you can get those at PetSmart or Petco for $6
Karrie
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
KarrieRee":2t6fyjw1 said:
I don't recommend hammocks I know people like to use them but they are or can be harmful w/ nails getting caught etc plus trying to get accurate basking temps -
Karrie
he seems to love his hammocks...do you recommend maybe the ones that are more of a tight mesh than the seagrass ones? what else is used? im still waiting for my response from the vet to send me the x-ray.
I'll grab the $6. temp reader. Is it the basking side that is most important read?
And for his night time I have a inferred ceramic 100w bulb going 7p-9a and reads at 84º which i thought might be to high for night time, and thinking i should change it to a 50w bulb instead.

Again, thank you so much for all your quick responses. you are the only one chiming in, and i'm so grateful for your knowledge.
 

SPandS

Juvie Member
I would probably just move the wood over and have that as his basking spot. It's more supportive than any type of hammock plus they are easier to get accurate basking temps. It's not so much the basking or warm side that you need to know but the actual basking spot temp. So when you get the new probe thermometer you should put the probe right where the warmest spot would be under the heat bulb as that should be the basking spot. How cool does the temp go at night without any added heat? Low 70s to high 60s is perfectly fine.

Is that spinach in his bowl? How often do you feed him that? You can feed spinach sometimes but it really shouldn't be fed as a staple.
 

adventureswithnorman

Member
Original Poster
SandP":gwqfwaux said:
Is that spinach in his bowl? How often do you feed him that? You can feed spinach sometimes but it really shouldn't be fed as a staple.
That is spinach, and i never feed him that. i usually feed him arugula or power greens salad mix. Thats what i had on hand and i knew he was not going to eat it as he has not eaten on his own in 5 days. I just felt guilty not having any food for him just incase he decided to eat. :D
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Here is a website for nutrition-- http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html ignore the kale its a good staple feeder--- infrared ceramic light ? Is that a CHE I am thinking-- you dont need that going at nite as long as your temps do not fall below 65--- they like cool in the 70's and dark at nite it slows their metabolism for a better nites sleep --- NO colored bulbs --- that disrupts their sleep and can cause long term eye damage -- that UVB plays a huge role in their eating so get your UVB situated and the basking temps to where they need to be 95-110 and see what he does ---
Karrie
 
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