Sunken Pads with Watery Poop, Not Eating

Hi all,

I was directed here from another forum and hoping I could get some insight into an issue I am having with my beardie.

I recently came home from being away for school for 2 years and got my 4* (I am the second owner so this is an estimate, I did get her as a juvenile though) year old dragon back from a friend who was watching her. I did come home for some holidays and the summer so had been checking in and things seemed fine, but near the end I noticed her fat pads were sinking in pictures I was sent. My first thought was dehydration so when I got her back I gave her plenty of soaks and offered her water daily (she drinks from running tap) and she was drinking fairly heavily so I figured that was it. My friend also let me know there was an incident when Artemis jumped out of the tank for a cricket and fell about 2ft, but her legs appear fine and she is running around.

She has been resettling back with me for just over a month, but her pads are still sunk and I have now noticed hip bones. She stopped eating about 3 weeks ago -- prior to that she only ate sparingly (2 large hornworms dusted with a multivitamin and about 8 crickets with calcium total, never saw her eat veggies but she is offered dandelion greens daily with squash, and occasional fruit for treats). I have been taking her out into the sun when I can (live in a cool climate, already 10 degrees outside). Her behavior seems normal and she is basking and moving around and regularly pooping, but no eating and pads are still sunk. She appears to perk up when food comes, but then doesn't go for it or even closes her eyes (usually with bugs). I haven't noticed any blood or undigested bugs in her poop, but it has been watery. I am currently saving up to get her into the vet asap but feeling anxious about what to do until I can get there (to clarify, it is not that she is not a priority, I don't have the money and the vet said it is pay up front). There is only 1 vet in my area that sees reptiles, so finding if another vet will do a payment plan is unfortunately not an option, and vets around here seem to charge hefty fees for reptiles. I did a full deep clean of her cage when I picked her up and spot clean daily. I have been trying to get a fecal, but it has been tricky as she is a bath pooper.

She has a history of being, frankly, a hefty girl. I weighed her when I picked her up from my friend and she had lost about 40g from when I originally dropped her off (from around 500 to 460). At first I thought it was actually good because she was tipping the overweight scale but now I know something is wrong. It can be hard to see in the pics, but her tail is the big thing I notice dropping weight and is moving toward the bony side rather than squishy.

Viv details:
-125 gallon, 4 x 2 x 2ft
-Reptisun 10.0 T8 with no screen over it and replaced last month, about 6inches from highest perch point
-Basking sits around 37/39 degrees, hot side 32 and cool 24. Humidity normal hangs out around 30 but this year has been abnormally wet with buckets of rain
-Her cage is in its own room kept away from our dogs.

She definitely doesnt look too skinny too me.

I'd be most interested in getting a fecal done. I think that's the best bet right now.
What are you taking your temps with? Your setup sounds fine but that's the only important detail left out.

The runny poos can simply be from all the water intake though. If her urates look fine I'd be inclined to hold off on letting her drink for a bit.

2 years is a long time. And older dragons are pretty stubborn. She might simply not be used to you yet. For the last 2 years someone else was taking care of her. And now you're back. I wouldn't be surprised if she just needs some time.

If your husbandry checks out, and the fecal is clear, that's what I'd imagine is going on now.

That or brumation but if shes active and basking, that's unlikely.

-Brandon

Sorry I never replied. Artemis passed away last night at the vet clinic. Prior to her appointment she started to pale, which the vet recognized as anemia. She had lost a total of 150grams from her regular weight and had a 2cm mobile mass in her belly.

After blood work, the vet found that her red blood cell count was around 7% (regular for beardies is 40%) and her glucose levels were through the roof. Kidneys were fine, calcium was good, electrolytes were normal, but her glucose was so high the machine couldn't read it. She had fat reserves left in her stomach, but the cancer was eating away at her muscles instead (which the vet said is a very bad sign). She was diagnosed with stomach cancer, or neuroendocrine gastric adenocarcinoma. The vet said she would not have survived treatment given her RBC levels, and I was given the option to either euthenize or bring her home and let the cancer eat away until she had enough.

I was not in research mode so did not take pictures, but I hope this post can be a warning to others about this issue. Even with her blood as it was, she was behaving normally (apart from not eating), energetic, and alert. She was only about 4.5 years old and had no health issues prior, and was always a happy and healthy girl. I am told this is an issue that is not caused by husbandry or diet (if anyone knows otherwise, I would really appreciate the information for prevention), and is unfortunately becoming more common in captive beardies. I did donate her body to research, so I hope there can be something good to come from this ****ty situation.

**if there is anyone from the other forum kicking around here, if you could carry my message over to the original board that would be great. I can't seem to get into my account as verification emails are not sending.

Hi there,

Wow I'm so sorry for your loss. I know it must be hard bit you did the right thing. Thank you for coming back and updating us though.
Hope you're doing ok!

-Brandon

Karrie

I'm sorry to hear she didn't make it. The high glucose levels are a tell tale of that neuroendocrine gastrinoma. Unfortunately there isn't anything to be done about it (yet) and it's a genetic issue. It's not caused by anything you could have controlled.