Brumating ?

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Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:51 am

I think Peppa and Fluffy have decided to brumate in the last few weeks.

I hardly see Fluffy moving about most days lately , apart from moving about to thermoregulate, visit her food dish to see what's on offer (every few days) and to drink , bath. She has 3 fav stops where she naps (one of them in the open where she can be seen).

Peppa has lost interest in her greens and crickets , and I no longer have any silkworms on the go (as off a few weeks ago when Peppa ate her last silkworm).

She's been more regular since the silkworms disappeared, poos every 2 to 4 days.

I cut back the photoperiod by 1 hr a couple weeks ago. With the end of DST I'll cut back by another hour or maybe even 1 hour each end..

I have found if I hand feed her more than 3 crickets, she's upchucking some. And she's been very sleepy for the last couple of weeks.
So I'm considering cutting Peppa's feeding to 2 or 3 per week if she's interested. And still getting her out for snuggles and if she opens her mouth (too hot) giving her a drink by dripping water in opened mouth. She's been taking water a lot this way this week , was very thirsty yesterday before her big poo (nice well formed poo, soft but not sloppy , and nice white urate too.)

Pooed on the 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th <== these 4 cleared out the last of the digested silkworms , 13th, 15th and yesterday. So she's not impacted.

My BTs are still wide awake and active and showing plenty of interest in their food.

So I guess - my question is how do you know your dragon is in brumation ?
(none of my dragons or skinks have done this in the past) and what changes should I make to accommodate for this if Peppa is in brumation other than
> shorter photoperiod
> less frequent feeding ( cut back to weekly maybe ? )
> providing water (dripped on lips , snout) ?

I think the very unusually wet , cloudy , stormy weather here this autumn ( huge rain events in Queenslands , late season Coral Sea TC last month , and 2 powerful big category 4 TCs in the Gulf and off the Pilbara coast (right now) , and the extra humidity around and reduced brightness of light through windows might be what's send Fluffy and Peppa and most the wild skinks into slowdown mode..

Obviously it's not wise let an impacted or otherwise sick dragon brumate , or to have a dragon go down with a stomach full of food (which is going to rot).
Warning signs of look out for ?
(ie no thermorelating activity , BBing , weightloss , URIs , others ?? etc).

She only took 6 smallish medium sized crickets today (under sufferance), spat out the 7th so I took the hint.
She went back into her tank on the ground in her cool zone after cooling off on the chair next to me for 90mins, was there for 90mins with her head up in the air and has crawled onto her heatslab now and is asleep infront of her hubbahut (so I guess she wanted some warmth).
So still actively thermoregulating.

BTW the blocked right nostril finally opened up , a flap of skin came off , was some clear mucus trapped under this which dried up and is no longer there, and any honey placed on the nostril is sucked into it pretty quick. So only applying a drop of honey to it each day now, and stopped the daily F10 nasal flushing last week.

Unless she shows interest in eating , I'll hold off feeding her. What do you guys do when you have a brumating or semibrumating dragon with feeding schedules ?
once a week ? 2x per week ? small feeds or normal sized feeds ?
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:58 am

Noticed this - https://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/ ... on/?page=1

Heck how did I miss it ?

2am , the room was dark and I was watching a DVD and I hear scratching , Peppa who slept all day either on me , or on her heatslab , or on the chair next me , was wide awake and standing on her back legs looking at me trying to get my attention (she could see me in the light from the laptop screen).
Told her "No, go back to sleep Peppa".
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby vrenee1018 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:34 am

I freaked out when Tampico started going into brumation because I thought she was getting sick. Then I did a little research and was relieved. For Tampico I actually turned her lights off and covered her up. She'd sleep for 5 days at a time for 2 months, and when she'd wake up on the weekend, I'd turn on her lights, give her a little bit of food and let her run around, bathe her to see if she was thirsty, then she'd go back to her tank earlier than normal and just nap for the rest of the day. I did monitor her weight to make sure nothing else was going on and I think she lost a total of 7 grams throughout her 2 month brumation period. It is really the cutest thing though. She would just sleep on her hammock with her little legs flung over and dangling off. I'd re-position her at times just to make sure she wouldn't wiggle off in her sleep. About a month or so after she came out of brumation she was crazy! Glass surfing and not eating, frantically trying to get out of her tank. I posted about it on here and CooperDragon reassured me that it was most likely due to her coming out of brumation. Now she's calm again and has her appetite back. I won't lie though, I was a little sad that I didn't have my buddy for a month and a half though. She was too busy sleeping her little life away. :blob8:
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She went down hill very fast and just died

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:13 pm

No food upchucks overnight, found her at the back cool end of her tank when I got up and out to it.

No food given today.

Little bit of urates passed (a bit damp and a bit sticky - so she's well hydrated , so she was staining a bit to get rid of them (were nice and white) , even slightly BBed and was very unsettled on me after pooing so I figured she was too hot so placed her on her favourate place on the lounge next to me where she settled straight away and is pancaking and spread out , lifts her head every now and then.

Update :
Peppa just passed away , she suddenly went really blackbeard and was arching her head up with her mouth wide open , so I picked her up she was having a snuggle and being comforted by me while I my wife was trying to get onto the reptile vets (but no one was answering at any of them (West Wallsend/Sugarloaf, Mt Hutton, or Glendale) when started holding her breath for long periods and gasped and took deep breaths with very shallow chest movements between , and opened her mouth wide and spasmed a few more times over her last 30 minutes.

When I realized she was very ill (5:30pm) , it was already too late to even call the Mobile Vet. I don't think they would have been able to do anything to help her based on my experience the local reptile vets in the past.

She spent her last two hours on me . At least she died with her two special people comforting her and making sure she knew was loved.

I flipped her over when I hadn't seen any sign of life for 5 minutes and her lungs had collapsed and there is no response.

RIP my lovely big smoogy girl Peppa , mommy and daddy are going to miss you.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby vrenee1018 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:26 am

OMG, I am so very very sorry! I am heartbroken for you and your wife! I am glad that she spent the last couple of hours with snuggles from papa. My heart breaks for you.
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:46 am

My wife was in tears she lost her dad to cancer a couple of weeks ago .
Now we've lost Peppa who has always been very special and very much a dragon who loved snuggles and cuddles (from the very first day we brought her home as hatchling ), never ever showed any aggression and loved her food up til the last few weeks when she lost interest even in her crickets and silkworms.

So we are back to just 3 pet skinks , our two old blue tongue skinks (10 years old and going well ,and never had any illnesses) , and Fluffy the (rescued) water skink .

I think Fluffy has picked up on that something is wrong as she was really studying Peppa when she was with me yesterday and today and she seemed to be looking for Peppa tonight after I returned Peppa to her now cold and dark tank for the last time for overnight, the routine has been Peppa gets to have a snuggle before lights out or she watched TV from the seat on the lounge next to me til she flaked after we had our diner .

I am pretty sure Peppa had some kind of organ failure or some kind of aggressive cancer in her gut - this would explain a sudden loss of interest in food and her going down hill so rapidly) , not sure if I'll get a necropsy done , will call a local vet tomorrow and ask about that.

I've been beating myself up second guessing myself , maybe I should have had a vet look at when she lost interest in her fav foods and started upchucking some of the stuff she'd eaten.

Is my practice to keep recently died lizards in their tank for 24 hours before sealing them in a plastic bag and freezing them. I don't want to freeze a still alive lizard. 24 hours is plenty of time for obvious signs of mortis to set in.

I've spotted a yearling female on GumTree who for sale to be rehomed (current keeper has to move and she can't go with her) so I've asked if she is still available. Was advertised just this afternoon.

Failing that I will hunt down one or two hatchling / juveniles CBDs to adopt.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby Aaradimian » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:27 am

Update : Peppa just passed away


My condolences. This can't be an easy time for you & your wife, and I know how much you cared for Peppa. RIP little dragon.
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby CooperDragon » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:20 am

Such sad news =(. I enjoyed hearing about her adventures ever since you brought her home as a little one. I'm glad she wasn't alone and you were able to comfort her. She certainly had a great life with you. One of the lucky dragons for sure.
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby vrenee1018 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:23 am

kingofnobbys wrote:I've been beating myself up second guessing myself , maybe I should have had a vet look at when she lost interest in her fav foods and started upchucking some of the stuff she'd eaten.


Awww don't beat yourself up. That will only cause more pain. We know that beardies are extremely good at hiding their sickness and symptoms. It was just her time to go. Don't beat yourself up. You gave her the greatest home ever and took care better care of her than most people do their children, I'm sure of it! RIP little girl!
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:24 pm

She's wrapped in absorbant paper towels and triple freezer bagged and in the freezer now pending collection for a necropsy .

F10ed all her furniture and her heatslab and the walls and floor of her tank. All dark and forlorn looking now.

Really hitting home now :( I'm really missing her company.

Checked GumTree , no dragons listed , was one last night but that listing has disappeared and the lady never even bothered responding to my query.
Checked f/sales at Beardeddragon.com.au - struck out
Checked f/sales at APS.com.au - struck out
Found a local breeder on PetPages based at Bobs Farm who has some 3 month old hatchling CBDs and some Henrylawsonii about the same age so asked for photos of the CBDs, genders and weights. Might have a little boy and little girl soon maybe. Bobs Farm is about 1 hour north and we have family there.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:19 am

I've all 3 skinks wanting out and even standing up and scratching at the front of their tanks (BTs) and tub (Fluffy) at one time or another today , both the BTs visited Peppa's tank and were trying to find her , and Fluffy has been looking for her when I had her out for "fun" time.

They're all being a bit more needy of my attention than usual since Peppa passed away. Pretty sure they are either picking up on my sadness/depressed state or have noted she's missing and are wondering where she is or both.

Update : I've made SMS contact w/ the breeder at Bobs Farm , not been able get onto her by phone or email yet , asked her for photos of the two biggest male hatchlings and similarly the two biggest female hatchlings , and told her I'd prefer M & F but will settle for F & F.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby Gormagon » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:35 am

My heart is with you my friend, it is devastating to lose a dragon like that. Things happen that we cannot control and, as diligent as you are with your pets, it had to be some underlying issue. She lived a great life with you and, she knew she was loved, that is all that matters.
I wish you the best of luck getting the two dragons you want and, "need" as quickly as possible.

You Ol'Friend,
John
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
RIP Peaches 10-1-18 Forever in my Heart
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby Terry15 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:48 pm

So sorry to hear about Peppa. I know you love your beardies. There is a member named “Mickyj” who has some newly hatched babies. She is giving them away for free. I told her to PM you, in case you are interested. She is in South Australia. Hope you can talk with her. RIP Peppa.
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:25 pm

Terry15 wrote:So sorry to hear about Peppa. I know you love your beardies. There is a member named “Mickyj” who has some newly hatched babies. She is giving them away for free. I told her to PM you, in case you are interested. She is in South Australia. Hope you can talk with her. RIP Peppa.


Nice thought thanks, but SA is 1500 km away (my place to Adelaide CBD) and a different state .

I've arranged to buy a 2x 3 month old (?) hatchlings (M + F) from the nearest breeder (located at Bobs Farm NSW).
Just a matter of teeing up an appointment to have my wife visit her brother (lives in Bobs Farm too) and to view and choose 2 nicest / biggest / friendliest hatchlings sometime in the next week.

Update : Breeder is setting a nice pair of CBD hatchlings aside for me .
Ordered a couple hundred BSFL & some 25 day old crickets (1/4 size = small) which should all be here in 2 or 3 days.
Unfortunately all my current stock of crickets are two big , OK for Fluffy , the two old BTs , and the wild skinks , but I think way too big for the new hatchlings based on what the breeder told me. Spent a while separating out the smallest crickets ( about 100 looked about 1/3 - 1/2 size ) .
Going to get some silkworm eggs out to hatch too.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Fluffy rescued injured by lawnwacker14Nov17, Gutzy 27Sep19.
Lucky - cat attack rescue, SI RIP 21Jul2010.
Wriggles - injured rescued, boss lizard, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16. .
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Re: Brumating ?

Postby vrenee1018 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:08 pm

That's great that you're getting two little hatchlings. Picked out a name for em yet? :blob8: :blob5:
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