Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

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Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby BaruBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:37 pm

How old is your dragon? 11
How long have you had your dragon? 10 years.
How long is your dragon? 19"
What is the sex of your dragon? Female
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 55 Gallon
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Tile/Towels
Do you use UVB lights? Yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? Fluorescent tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Repti sun 10.0 T5
How old is your UVB bulb? 6 Months
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 8-12 inches
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? White bulb 150 watts dimmable
What are the basking temps? 104F
What is the cool side temp? 80F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Digital with probe
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? On top of her basking log.
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? Heating pad at night if its cold enough (65F or below)
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. Different baby foods but including butternut squash, green beans, sweet peas, carrots, and a green puree I blend for her. For insects, I give dubia roaches and occasionally, crickets.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Morning
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Liquid calcium every day 0.5ML herptivite multi vitamin every time she eats bugs, roughly 2-3 times a week.
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Less often now that she eats less, but at least once every 2 weeks.
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Every month
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? I offer her water from a spray bottle every 2 days
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? See above
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No, never has.

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Okay... so I've posted here multiple times about my girl Bubby, and I'm still at a loss about what is causing the twitching she has, and it's not improving at all.

I've taken her to the vet, she said she had seen these symptoms a lot and told me it was MBD(which she diagnosed without a blood test), also she tested negative for any parasites and was a good weight. They prescribed liquid calcium and a new UVB bulb, I get her a reptisun 10.0 T5 bulb and I gave her all of that and even bought another bottle of calcium myself, no improvement. This was ~7 months ago.


I've tried vitamin B1 supplement, which she hates the taste of, absolutely no improvement.
This was 5 months ago after I noticed the calcium wasn't helping.

I don't know what else to do, I'm very bad off financially and can't afford to bring her to the vet again and I couldn't even afford the blood test when she went months ago.
I can probably get her back to one next month, but my faith in them is dwindling since what they prescribed at first didn't work.

Her condition has wasted away so much that I now have to syringe feed her baby food, or else she won't eat at all, minus a few Dubia roaches every once in a while.

I know I could give her to someone who can care better for her and people have told me I should do that and that I'm a horrible owner. She is 11 years old 10 of which I've had her and I guess my feelings get in the way of me doing that.

She's my baby and I worry about her well being every single day and can barely even look at her or play with her because I don't know if the twitching or cramping or whatever it is is hurting her or not.
BaruBD
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby AHBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:20 pm

Hi there, I'm sorry to read this about Bubby. Can you post a video of her movements ? You obviously care very much for her and are doing all you can to try to keep her healthy. Whoever says that you're a bad owner is just ignorant so pay no mind to those people. You have kept her healthy + alive longer than many beardie owners, so that is a testament to your good care of her. If it's warm where you live can you get her out in the sun ?

One major thing to consider, at 11 years she is really in the old age category for beardies. With old age in humans as well as animals can come unexplained and very difficult to diagnose illnesses with symptoms which are very frustrating. It really sounds like there's not much you can do aside from what you're already doing. If you don't think your vet is competent then you really wouldn't have confidence in their treatment. Bloodwork may reveal something else but at her age + condition anything beyond supplements might be hard on her. Does she eat the baby food willingly ? Can you get some Oxbow Critical Care from the vet ? That can at least help her keep more weight on.

I'm really sorry she's in this condition. Maybe Tracie [ Drache613 ] might have some thoughts + suggestions for you. Best wishes to you + your little girl.
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby BaruBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:06 pm

Thank you for the reply.
Here is a video of the twitching: https://vimeo.com/301412583 it happens up and down her sides, her stomach and even causes her arms and legs to move sometimes and is worse when she moves.
It isn't warm enough here anymore to take her out.

I was pretty disappointed in the vet as they seemed certain that calcium would help her, I probably will take her to get blood work soon though.
She does eat the baby food and also her bugs willingly, she can walk fine and go after the bugs but that does flare up the twitching.

I've never heard of the Oxbow Critical Care but I can see if I can find it or get it from a vet.
I don't think her weight has been in decline and her stomach almost seems bloated (it hangs on the sides).
BaruBD
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby AHBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:23 pm

That is pretty alarming, is this happening all the time ? And BTW, I apologize for the misunderstanding but I thought you meant she was wasting away as in getting very thin but I can see that she is pretty hefty. You might try limiting the baby food an adding extra water in it's place, mixed together in the syringe. Some of the things I read about that could cause spasms in humans are excess gas, constipation and dehydration. I did find one article pertaining to reptiles, it mentions possible kidney issues. That's where less food + more water might help. I don't know if any of this is helpful but I sure hope it is. I feel for your good girl. Here's the link.

http://www.anapsid.org/spasms.html
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby BaruBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:09 pm

Sorry for the misunderstanding, it doesn't happen all the time but if I get her out or she moves around it happens for a few minutes. Sometimes it happens even when shes still.

I will limit the baby food and put more water into her.
Do you know how a vet would check to see if there are issues with her kidneys or liver? Blood test?
BaruBD
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby AHBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:13 pm

Yes, blood test would reveal kidney + liver function. She may be extra gassy too, old people + older animals don't always digest their food well and they also need less of it so as not to stay too bloated. I'm glad to hear that it doesn't happen all the time but I can understand that it would be distressing to you if you want to hold her + take her out. Other than the spasms + the bloating she looks quite well.
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby BaruBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:25 pm

Okay, blood work will be my next move then.

It's extra frustrating because I can't find anything similar online, I always read stuff about spasms but they're in their toes or limbs, she has never had that happen. Her arms do twitch if I hold her up from the ground but it's coming from her body, not her actual arm.
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Re: Muscle Spasms/Cramping. At a loss.

Postby AHBD » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:16 pm

I don't think this is calcium related at all,something going on with her digestive system I think. She doesn't look like she's in a lot of pain though. They hunker down, close their eyes + black beard if the stress or pain is bad. When you do get the blood tests, post them here.
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