Anorexia and Stunted Growth??

Za941":1b7ftlaw said:

Hi there

My bearded dragon is 9 months old and she is SMALL. She's 12.5 inches tip to tail and she weighs 93 grams. I know. I know.

Photos of her

is she sharing a tank ?.

She's not a Rankin.

She has a 4 foot Viv. I recently bought her a 10.0 UVB T8 26 inches it sits 15 inches from the floor of her tank.
Too weak & too far away , needs to be an Arcadia T5HO 12% UVB tube in a reflector hood mounted UNDER the lid and no more than 12" from her basking spot.
At best (if there is no mesh under it , and it's in a reflector hood),
she's only getting a max of 40 -50 microW UVB / sq.cm
and maybe 200 microW UVA / sq.cm
(1/4 her needs to be healthy and to have adequate levels of natural Vit D3).

has she been checked for MBD ?
> inadequate UVA will result in poor appetite
> inadequate UVB will make it very hard for her to synthesis VitD3 in her skin, VitD3 fortified Calcium or vitamin powder or liquid suppliments WILL NOT be an effective substitute for adequate UVB everyday.
For more information on setting up temperatures and UVA & UVB gradients see viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611

Her temps are 90 one side 70 the other- I have a temp gun. I have a dimmer and regulary adjust.
Warm Zone about 90 degF is OK.
Her basking spot needs to be not more than 104 degF (40 degC).

Istruggle to get her to eat. I've tried crickets,locusts,calci worms,silk worms, meal worms and now dubias. She loves them for about 2 days then hates them.
<< try handfeeding her bugs to her each day …. at one year old 2 meals of bugs per day.
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=235583

Build up her insect protein intake slowly else her kidneys may have problems coping with a sudden big increase in protein intake.
You may need to gently force her mouth open for each bug....

I recently got a full faecal for everything and she came back with YEAST Positive +++. Everything else negative.

Here is what I've done so far. I've take everything out her tank, disinfected it and only put a few things back in to keep it clean just in case. I've stopped putting food in her food bowls and started feeding her in a separate plastic box.

I bought her reptoboost which so far has made her go from sleeping all day and constantly showing stress marks to basking and being colourful again it even caused her to finish a she'd she was nearly stuck in which is awesome- still no appetite change though.
<<<< keep on giving the reptile booster supplement , I do think the very UV is at the crux of the problems .

I've got her on a tincture of clove, wormwood and wallnut. I did a lot of research and found this was a safe natural remedy and is used in many natural pet medicines for intestinal cleansing and immunity boosting. It should cure her yeast. I feed her 0.010 ml (two drops) mixed with 1 ml of water every day starting today and then I'll gradually start skipping days in between till she's better and doesn't need it anymore.
<<<< these may be toxic at leaste at the dose you are giving (which is designed people or mammals (who have a much higher base metabolic rate and process these differently) to a reptile and part of the problem.

Shes been eating two roaches a day. That's it. The roaches are about 1- 1.5 cm so they're fairly big which is good.
Try silkworms - they are excellent., slow moving and don't bite and most lizards find them irresistible
A medium sized silkworm will be about 2in long and is a lot of protein cf a medium sized cricket

A 30mm long silkworm is 0.5g = 2-3 medium crickets (12x MED = 3g)
A 40mm long silkworm is 1.3g = 5-6 medium crickets
a 2 inch long silkworm is 1.8g
a large silkworm about 3in is 2.3g = 8 - 10 medium crickets



I would like to change her UV bulb even though it's brand new just in case it's faulty. Right now it's Acadia, I hear zoo med is better? Arcadia is better than Zoo Med or Exo Terra .

What I'd like to know is, could the yeast infection have been the reason for her poor appetite and slow growth?
If she's feeling off , it will impact appetite.
Many meds will also put them off their food too.

Was the vet a REPTILE VET ?

She's very small for her age (failure to thrive./stunted) this takes a long period to be so extreme.

Has anyone had any experience with dragon anorexia? Can anyone suggest a bulb that I can trust before I spend another 20 quid on a bulb that doesn't work? Has anyone had success with fussy dragons?

Any suggestions, information, anything please share. I'll absorb it all like an incredibly grateful sponge.

Click to expand...

Za941":1q4owbk1 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bl0MLTCA0q4/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=xsu6b7p143a4

is that paper toweling used as her bedding ?
…. That's fine I use it for my beardies (over plastic (rearing tubs)) or over loose ceramic wall tiles (to soften the surface a wee bit when they are crawling and leaping onto the floor of their big plywood 4x2x1.5H tanks for the adults)
If it's sand (hard to tell in the small image - and it appears very white ==> please don't tell me it's calci-sand aka Vita-sand.... if it is …. the sand (any sand) needs to removed posthaste. VERY DANGEROUS for bearded dragons.

Apart from that I've seen worse setups , only suggest upgrading to a T5HO 12%UVB and mounting it over her when she's basking (about 12" from the basking spot) .
And putting the basking globe in a cage (the little guys have a habit of reaching up to touch bright globes and even leaping onto them and their reflector domes ==> nasty burns are the inevitable result if it's their unprotected basking globe or MVB.

Do you have larger closeup of her ?

Thank you so much. I had no idea about the light.

This is a link to her Instagram. That's her tank and her in it. You'll find lots more pictures of her. She's always been very active but I will admit she did change a lot after I got the new Viv. I'd never used a T8 before it came with the Viv. She used to have a zoomed coil under a reflector hood next to her basking light and she did ok with that. I also took her out nearly every day in the summer for sun

I've bought the 12% T8 and a reflector I wasn't aware T8s needed them. She no longer has the branches in her tank as I'm making she they a really properly disinfected.

The vet I went to wasn't a herp vet, just a regular

<<<< regular vets are only helpful in an emergency if your can't get to a REPTILE/HERP VET ….
regular vets know SFA about reptile health and medicine …. Exotics vets are OK for birds , but again not too flash in their knowledge and skill in reptile vet science , consequently general and exotics vets often do more harm than good when you have a sick or injured herp who needs help.

We can help you find a nearby REPTILE vet if you tell us the county or city you live in. They are scarce as hens' teeth.
, he said she didn't have any signs of MBD.
Did she take xrays to assess bone density and bloodwork to determine this ?

She's quite strong and very active in general. He did say there could be a possibility of anemia, I didn't trust him though, he wanted to charge me £120 just for a faecal test along side the 20 minute poke he gave my dragon that he charged me £54 for. I decided to get a full faecal at pals vet lab instead which I got the results as negative apart from yeast and a note of heavy normal flora. I'm waiting to get paid this week so I can book her into a real vet that 100% is experienced with reptiles.

The tincture I've given her has been ingredients to many of the natural reptile remedies such as reptaid and parazap. I've also been reading dissertations that noted it was used on tortoises, poultry and rabbit and help significantly reduce coccidiosis, worms and yeast. The measurement I've got was from reptaid however I've further reduced that to 0.005 once a week.

She's not showed any signs of stress anymore and her lethargy has totally gone. She also finished her shed but it was just her legs. Note- it was the first time she'd she in 3 months. I believed the reptoboost was the biggest factor in that, also round about when I changed her Viv.

I'm planning on buy some reptile vitamin B complex to see if it helps her metabolism.
<< let lick some VEGEMITE off your finger tip …. very rich in VitB.

I've always left her food in a food bowl because when she was young she would just pace herself and by the end of the day they'd all be gone. Now it's hit or miss and I heard that she may just be used to having food in there so I'm going to try change that.

Oh also ordered the silks. I did have successbwith the once. She was nuts for dubias two weeks ago, at 10 and then look at me for more but I'd only ordered 10 as a test. Then I ordered 60 and suddenly it was back to two a day.?

Click to expand...

Za941":2yc3s9m9 said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BnQRM0cg6RZ/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=otgozhqnpfar

<<< she looks very good in that old photo …. how about one that's current ?

This is a close up of her from not long ago. As you can see she does tend to have quite a bit of muscle which makes me confused as to how she is getting muscle growth but not bone growth or fat.

Well I had read that he was a vet with special interests in reptiles so I thought he'd be worth a shot but he literally asked a few questions about husbandry, pulled,poked and pinched her which stressed her out ALOT. Said she was strong and showed no signs of MBD and told me to get just a faecal which he was gonna charge 120 for. PALS did a full test, parasites, cryptosporidium,bacteria everything for £43.

I've found 2 vets one is a Herp in oxford and the is an animal hospital nearby. Would you trust an animal hospital? They seem to have their own facilities and are highly staffed. Only because I'd have to get a few trains to Oxford and I don't want to to stress out my girl.

Here's a list of Vets , includes vets in the UK who are reptile specialist vet : http://www.anapsid.org/vets/england.html

I'll definitely be re-adjusting that light all together so it sits above rather than next to and aim to upgrade to t5 in the next few pay checks. I don't use substrates just kitchen roll. Helps me keep the tank clean and will definitely jump on to that vegimite tip.

You've been so helpful I really appreciate it. Will definitely post updates.

Click to expand...

AHBD":2qggvxmi said:

Hi there, I replied in your other thread, don't know if you got a notification. The dragon is small but is not at all severely stunted. You can feed [ if she'll eat ] normal amounts of food such as 10-12 bugs per feeding twice a day. The light should be fine at that distance when the basking log is in there, so you should put it back but as was mentioned it's better if the light is shining from above rather than the side. To try to get her to eat, put a few drops of the Reptaboost on a bug, you might even crush the bug slightly so she gets a taste of both at the same time.

I also linked a thread from this forum about another dragon with candida, that might be helpful. I'm not sure how badly it can affect a dragon and whether her symptoms are all because of it. Hopefully you'll get her back on the right track soon.

Click to expand...

Za941":bhj495pe said:

Yet she's only 93 grams at 9 months. I wonder if it really is a combination of fussy eating and a bad light set up ? . Been getting her to eat two meals of 4 cockroaches a day but only through hand feeding. Hopefully things will change with the new set up and the silk worms arrive.

Click to expand...