Baby beardie not growing much

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Larysa

Member
So... We got our second beardy at the beginning of March (so about 7 weeks ago now). He's gorgeous, and his name is Pancake. :)
He is a hypomelanistic leatherback with about 2/3 of his tail missing (the breeder's daughter was feeding the babies and he tried to jump out of their enclosure just as she was closing the sliding doors, so alas, much of his tail is gone, but it's well and truly long enough that it won't have affected any genitals). We bought him as a boy, but I admit I can't tell because he's too little and I'm not experienced enough yet...
Just FYI, I got my first beardie in January, he was about 4" SVL when we got him and he's probably about 10" now (His name is Eddie Lizzard). Pancake was probably about 3" SVL when we got him and not much more than that now (maybe 3.5").
Pancake is in a tank about 18" cubed. He will be moving to a 3' tank very shortly (just sorting out tank stacks etc).
____________________________________________________________________________________
I'll answer a list of questions seen in another post, which I thought were great questions, and may help with info:

What is your substrate? (Tile, sand, calci sand, paper towels ect) - the Exo-terra sand mat (with no loose sand, it's like a rubber mat with sand stuck to it, so it 'files' their nails, but they can't ingest it).

What are your temperatures? Directly under the spot lamp - 30c, cool end about 20c

What are you monitoring your temperatures with? Laser thermometer

What are you trying to feed him (tell me about both greens and insects)
Insects: home bred wood-roaches, medium crickets (not often, he doesn't seem to like them), rarely super-mealworms, but only if they've recently shed (the white ones, no hard shells and he's only had 2 in his life, one today, one a fortnight ago). Salad is usually corn (fresh off the cob), red capsicum, and carrot (all cut to the size of a corn kernel). Occasionally other salad items like spinach, kale, etc.

What are you using to dust his insects (Calcium without d3, calcium with d3, multivitamin ect)
He really hates insects with dust on them, so I gutload the insects with Repashy and feed them carrot and oranges for the vitamins (the insects get the oranges, NOT the beardies!!).

What is your dusting plans? (5x a week calcium, 2x a week calcium, 2x a week multivitamin ect)
As previously mentioned, only dusting rarely as he doesn't like powder at all, he'll just spit the insect out as soon as it gets in his mouth.

Is he housed with any other beardies? Yes and no... He is on his own, but, he's actually in a 3' tank, divided into about 1/3 / 2/3 - housing is temporary, I know he should be in a larger tank, and he will be ASAP.

What UVB brand did you purchase (zoomed/reptisun, exo terra, arcadia ect) It's a Zoo Med UVB tube (fluoro-tube type)

How far is the UVB from the basking spot?
About 10"

Is the UVB a t5 or a t8? Is it a 5.0, 10.0, 12% or 14%?
I can't remember, sorry. I think it's a 10.0, but it's 2.30am and I don't want to turn the light on to check...

Is the UVB mounted inside or on a screen?
The tank is an Exo Terra and the UV is sitting on top of the tank's screen lid.
There is also a heat spotlight directly over one corner of the tank, and he has two rocks under the heat lamp, one about 8" from the lamp, and one about 12" from the lamp. He usually sits on top of the taller rock during the day and flattens himself out (hence the name - pancake!).

He was getting really cold at night, and taking ages to get moving in the morning, so about a week ago we put a red heat lamp on him because I'd read online that the ceramic heat lamps can overheat beardie's eyes and blind them. Now, however, I've been reading that red lights can keep them up at night, so I admit, I'm confused. I live in Melbourne, Australia, so I'll HAVE to do something about heating at night, with all the reptiles we have we'll probably keep the heaters on at night over winter, so it should stay around 20c).

Note - not asked, but, he has a tub of water in his tank, fresh water with reptisafe drops in it.
_____________________________________________________________________________

OK, so, having said all that - does anyone have any ideas why he isn't growing much at all???

He's had one shed since we've had him (I would have expected more), and he poops pretty much every day, although it's not very big.

He's VERY picky about food. He doesn't like woodies (wood-roaches) much, I have been taking him out of his enclosure and putting him into a tub with some woodies to allow him to eat without the woodies escaping from him (as they do if I put them into his tank). At first he was fine, and chased the woodies around or grabbing them as they run past him, but he's been eating fewer and fewer of them to the point where now he'll eat one, or maybe two, and that's it. He will run maniacally around the tub, but just doesn't eat. I tried crickets (small-ish ones, not bigger than the space between his eyes), and he does eat one or two, but he's not really enthusiastic. The only thing he's enthusiastic about is the super-mealworms, but I've read that they can be really bad for young beardies, due to their 'shells', so I've given him two (as mentioned above), but only when I've found them in our container freshly moulted. He doesn't eat much salad, but I wouldn't expect him to at his age, although he's always got some in his tank, just in case.

He has been seen by a vet who said there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him (although she did say he needs a bigger tank, which I knew and am working to rectify ASAP).

I can take some photos tomorrow if needed. :)

Thanks for any help, and for taking the time to read this far. :D
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
It sounds like he is OK. Photos would be helpful but if he is active and energetic that's a good sign. They grow at different rates and in spurts so that's good to keep in mind. I would provide a warmer basking area. 30c is a bit low. I'd keep the basking surface between about 38-42 or so. The distance for the UVB depends on the type so if it's a T8 tube then it should be about 6-8'' above the basking site and if it's a T5 it should be about 12'' up if you are using a reflector (which I recommend).
 

Larysa

Member
Original Poster
Hi CooperDragon!
Thanks for taking the time to reply...
Here are a couple of photos of Pancake:
In his tank:
96996-3276887238.jpg

Here he is, with a ruler for size...
96996-6794425072.jpg

Thanks for the info about the temp, I can't believe I missed that. I'll have to get a higher wattage globe, this one's just not doing it, apparently.
Since I posted this I have found something he likes eating, it's Kale, oh, and pea pods! (like the pod of green peas, cut up). He doesn't eat much, and he's not eating anywhere near as many insects as I'd like at this age, but at least it's something!!!

What do you think of the photos?
 

CooperDragon

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
He's still a little guy but he looks healthy in those photos. Hopefully his appetite for bugs will pick up again so he can get protein. It's great that he's into kale and pea pods. Those are good options for him.
 

Larysa

Member
Original Poster
Awesome, thanks heaps.
I'll just keep presenting him with bugs and do the best we can.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Larysa":33z2byvm said:
So... We got our second beardy at the beginning of March (so about 7 weeks ago now). He's gorgeous, and his name is Pancake. :)
He is a hypomelanistic leatherback with about 2/3 of his tail missing (the breeder's daughter was feeding the babies and he tried to jump out of their enclosure just as she was closing the sliding doors, so alas, much of his tail is gone, but it's well and truly long enough that it won't have affected any genitals). We bought him as a boy, but I admit I can't tell because he's too little and I'm not experienced enough yet...
Just FYI, I got my first beardie in January, he was about 4" SVL when we got him and he's probably about 10" now (His name is Eddie Lizzard). Pancake was probably about 3" SVL when we got him and not much more than that now (maybe 3.5").
Pancake is in a tank about 18" cubed. He will be moving to a 3' tank very shortly (just sorting out tank stacks etc).
____________________________________________________________________________________
I'll answer a list of questions seen in another post, which I thought were great questions, and may help with info:

What is your substrate? (Tile, sand, calci sand, paper towels ect) - the Exo-terra sand mat (with no loose sand, it's like a rubber mat with sand stuck to it, so it 'files' their nails, but they can't ingest it).

What are your temperatures? Directly under the spot lamp - 30c, cool end about 20c <<<< nudge these both up by 5 to 8 degC , he needs warmth to digest his food and convert dietary calcium to vitD3 ,. and to grow.
Measure using a digital thermometer (the type with a probe which at the end of long wire).


What are you monitoring your temperatures with? Laser thermometer <<<< these are easy to introduce systematic measurement errors to .... and only give surface temperatures , not the air temperatures which you need to know.

What are you trying to feed him (tell me about both greens and insects)
Insects: home bred wood-roaches, medium crickets (not often, he doesn't seem to like them), rarely super-mealworms, but only if they've recently shed (the white ones, no hard shells and he's only had 2 in his life, one today, one a fortnight ago). Salad is usually corn (fresh off the cob), red capsicum, and carrot (all cut to the size of a corn kernel). Occasionally other salad items like spinach, kale, etc.

What are you using to dust his insects (Calcium without d3, calcium with d3, multivitamin ect)
He really hates insects with dust on them, so I gutload the insects with Repashy and feed them carrot and oranges for the vitamins (the insects get the oranges, NOT the beardies!!).

<<<< 3 meals of live insects everyday for him , as many as he wants , he needs insect proteins and fats to grow and develop.

<<< best feeders are
BSFL & the flies
silkworms (for him small (about 1in long) and medium to about 2in long)
1/3 size crickets or similar sized roaches or locusts (gut loaded and dusted)

>>>> check out Aussie Fauna for silkworms, Livefoods Unlimited for crickets, BSFL, woodies.
>>>> unfortunately Frog Arcade seems have fallen in a heap over the last year of so.
>>>> much cheaper to order in the insects 1000 at a time (crickets etc) than buying in small tubs from local pet shops.

No supers or mealworms except as very rare treats.

What is your dusting plans? (5x a week calcium, 2x a week calcium, 2x a week multivitamin ect)
As previously mentioned, only dusting rarely as he doesn't like powder at all, he'll just spit the insect out as soon as it gets in his mouth.

Is he housed with any other beardies? Yes and no... He is on his own, but, he's actually in a 3' tank, divided into about 1/3 / 2/3 - housing is temporary, I know he should be in a larger tank, and he will be ASAP.
<<< visit Bunnings and buy a couple of 145L tubs , they are great rearing tanks and very easy to convert . See viewtopic.php?f=34&t=233480
What UVB brand did you purchase (zoomed/reptisun, exo terra, arcadia ect) It's a Zoo Med UVB tube (fluoro-tube type)

How far is the UVB from the basking spot?
About 10"

Is the UVB a t5 or a t8? Is it a 5.0, 10.0, 12% or 14%?
I can't remember, sorry. I think it's a 10.0, but it's 2.30am and I don't want to turn the light on to check...

Is the UVB mounted inside or on a screen?
The tank is an Exo Terra and the UV is sitting on top of the tank's screen lid.
There is also a heat spotlight directly over one corner of the tank, and he has two rocks under the heat lamp, one about 8" from the lamp, and one about 12" from the lamp. He usually sits on top of the taller rock during the day and flattens himself out (hence the name - pancake!).

<<<< move it under the screen, as the mesh blocks about 40% of the UV, inadequate UVA will result in reduced appetite.
Need 16 hour photoperiod, and about 180 microwatts UVB/ sq.cm .
See this for working out how to set up lighting. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=235611


He was getting really cold at night, and taking ages to get moving in the morning, so about a week ago we put a red heat lamp on him because I'd read online that the ceramic heat lamps can overheat beardie's eyes and blind them. Now, however, I've been reading that red lights can keep them up at night, so I admit, I'm confused. I live in Melbourne, Australia, so I'll HAVE to do something about heating at night, with all the reptiles we have we'll probably keep the heaters on at night over winter, so it should stay around 20c).

<<< too cold for a hatchling IMO..... no cooler than 24 degC overnight.
I find they love a nice warm hide at night , this is what I have for all my skinks and dragons , super easy to set up and I simply leave it on 24/7....viewtopic.php?f=75&t=224976&p=1746469&hilit=safe+way+to+use+heatpads#p1746469

Gets bloody cold in Melbourne in winter .... a CHE on a dimming thermostat might be called for if the room where the two hatchlings are gets really cold overnight in winter.

Note - not asked, but, he has a tub of water in his tank, fresh water with reptisafe drops in it.
_____________________________________________________________________________

OK, so, having said all that - does anyone have any ideas why he isn't growing much at all???

He's had one shed since we've had him (I would have expected more), and he poops pretty much every day, although it's not very big.

He's VERY picky about food. He doesn't like woodies (wood-roaches) much, I have been taking him out of his enclosure and putting him into a tub with some woodies to allow him to eat without the woodies escaping from him (as they do if I put them into his tank). At first he was fine, and chased the woodies around or grabbing them as they run past him, but he's been eating fewer and fewer of them to the point where now he'll eat one, or maybe two, and that's it. He will run maniacally around the tub, but just doesn't eat. I tried crickets (small-ish ones, not bigger than the space between his eyes), and he does eat one or two, but he's not really enthusiastic. The only thing he's enthusiastic about is the super-mealworms, but I've read that they can be really bad for young beardies, due to their 'shells', so I've given him two (as mentioned above), but only when I've found them in our container freshly moulted. He doesn't eat much salad, but I wouldn't expect him to at his age, although he's always got some in his tank, just in case.

I've never had much luck getting any lizard to feed in a separate feeding tub, I find it's best to drop 2 or 3 crickets in at a time, let the lizard catch and eat there , repeat until it looses interest ==> is full.
He might be better on the food if you try silkworms .... slow moving and most lizards love them.
If you get BSFL , I find the white lavae are more appetizing to my lizards, but will eat the dark coloured lavae if I snip off the head and they can smell / taste the stuff inside. (Better given by hand , is a great way bonding too and perfectly OK to handfeed a poor eater - ensures he gets the food he needs.)

He has been seen by a vet who said there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with him (although she did say he needs a bigger tank, which I knew and am working to rectify ASAP).

I can take some photos tomorrow if needed. :)

Thanks for any help, and for taking the time to read this far. :D
 
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