Concerned about Slim - possible yellow fungus.

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Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Hi all,

I used to be a very active member here back when Slim was a little guy. Here's his original board:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=181836

He's now 5 years old and, up until recently, was very healthy... but we're running into some skin problems now. I wish I had pictures to show but he currently has a bandage on. I guess I'm just venting and looking for any possible advice or information anyone may have, although I know that's hard with no pictures.

It started out with a clogged femoral pore that the vet suggested regular bathing for. When it didn't resolve itself it started to turn red, then black; the vet was able to unclog the pore, then remove the necrotic tissue, and we've been back every week for wound cleaning, soaks and bandage changes. That's been going well - he's on antibiotics and the wound is healing - but a new problem is starting now.

The area around the wound is irritated looking, and it's spreading. Kind of crusty, with yellowish scales falling off to reveal irritated, red skin. At first the vet thought the bandage was rubbing and causing some retained shed, but yesterday she said it doesn't look good and she's beginning to suspect yellow fungus.

He gets a biopsy next week. If I don't have answers after that, I'm getting a second opinion.

I'm really worried about him. He's such a good, sweet boy. Everyone always says he's incredibly handsome. Here's a recent shot of him:

989y1vm0bsh01.jpg
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Oh my, please put up pics ASAP. Will you be changing the dressing any time ? It's always pretty much a must to take pics as something like this develops. I wonder if you can find pics of what his pores looked like before the vet intervention. It can usually be resolved with good soaks. Hopefully it's not Y.F.

Your boy is a good looking dude, on the chunky side for sure but handsome nonetheless. :)
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
AHBD":3nnw7xgq said:
Oh my, please put up pics ASAP. Will you be changing the dressing any time ? It's always pretty much a must to take pics as something like this develops. I wonder if you can find pics of what his pores looked like before the vet intervention. It can usually be resolved with good soaks. Hopefully it's not Y.F.

Your boy is a good looking dude, on the chunky side for sure but handsome nonetheless. :)

Hi! Yes he's a chunky boy, haha.

We change the dressing once per week at the moment, at each vet visit. He had his last visit last night. I will try to get a picture next time. I didn't think to take "progress pictures" because I assumed the vet knew what they were doing and that it would get better... maybe a bit naive of me. :(

I actually did find some pictures I forgot about...

Here he is when his femoral pore really began to get inflamed (even with regular bathing):

IRyGbWm.jpg



This is after they unclogged the pore, when the tissue began turning black (the white stuff is cream they had me applying, not pus or anything like that):

bg2S11M.jpg


This is after they removed the necrotic tissue and bandaged him up. But it shows the spot I'm worried about, that the vet thinks might be fungus. It seems to be spreading. The bandage is to protect his leg, which is raw meat right now - they had to remove a pretty thick layer of necrotic scales. :(

gtS0NRo.jpg
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Oh I'm so sorry he's going through this, what a horrible thing...hopefully your vet is experienced with this sort of thing, it's so difficult to find a good, experienced Reptile vet...

Looking at the photo I don't personally see anything that looks like Yellow Fungus, and honestly I don't know how you could tell considering everything that has been going on in that area, the bacterial infection, the necrosis, the procedures/surgeries, the topical meds, etc. It's very likely that it's just damaged scales, stained scales, or even a bit of bacterial infection spreading throughout the area, but it doesn't look like Yellow Fungus to me, though the light in the photo isn't making it easy to really get a good look at it...

Just as an FYI, your vet only needs to do a very non-invasive, simple Skin-Scraping test of the area and send it off to the lab to test for Yellow Fungus, and the results are usually back in a couple of days. A Skin-Scraping test literally takes 5-10 minutes at the very most, doesn't hurt, and is not at all in any way a "Biopsy". So I'm not sure why your vet has scheduled an actual "Biopsy" for next week, that makes it sound like they are actually going to be removing a chunk of tissue to solely test for Yellow Fungus??? If so, then you definitely need to stop that train from running...the vet could have done the Skin-Scraping test in the few minutes during the last visit, you'd already have the results by now...So unless she is planning on doing a much more invasive "Biopsy" of the area in order to test for something else or for some reason other than testing for Yellow Fungus, then something isn't quite right, and I suggest either calling the vet and asking them why they aren't just doing a simple Skin-Scraping test for the Yellow Fungus diagnosis, and if they don't understand what you're talking about or they insist that a Biopsy must be done, then you need to find another vet that will do the Skin-Scraping test on the spot, as is usually done. I've never, ever heard of doing an actual "Biopsy" to simply test for Yellow Fungus, and I've done a ton of Yellow Fungus and other Skin-Scraping tests at the Reptile and Bird Rescue I work at...
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
EllenD":gjzgdwo9 said:
Oh I'm so sorry he's going through this, what a horrible thing...hopefully your vet is experienced with this sort of thing, it's so difficult to find a good, experienced Reptile vet...

Looking at the photo I don't personally see anything that looks like Yellow Fungus, and honestly I don't know how you could tell considering everything that has been going on in that area, the bacterial infection, the necrosis, the procedures/surgeries, the topical meds, etc. It's very likely that it's just damaged scales, stained scales, or even a bit of bacterial infection spreading throughout the area, but it doesn't look like Yellow Fungus to me, though the light in the photo isn't making it easy to really get a good look at it...

Just as an FYI, your vet only needs to do a very non-invasive, simple Skin-Scraping test of the area and send it off to the lab to test for Yellow Fungus, and the results are usually back in a couple of days. A Skin-Scraping test literally takes 5-10 minutes at the very most, doesn't hurt, and is not at all in any way a "Biopsy". So I'm not sure why your vet has scheduled an actual "Biopsy" for next week, that makes it sound like they are actually going to be removing a chunk of tissue to solely test for Yellow Fungus??? If so, then you definitely need to stop that train from running...the vet could have done the Skin-Scraping test in the few minutes during the last visit, you'd already have the results by now...So unless she is planning on doing a much more invasive "Biopsy" of the area in order to test for something else or for some reason other than testing for Yellow Fungus, then something isn't quite right, and I suggest either calling the vet and asking them why they aren't just doing a simple Skin-Scraping test for the Yellow Fungus diagnosis, and if they don't understand what you're talking about or they insist that a Biopsy must be done, then you need to find another vet that will do the Skin-Scraping test on the spot, as is usually done. I've never, ever heard of doing an actual "Biopsy" to simply test for Yellow Fungus, and I've done a ton of Yellow Fungus and other Skin-Scraping tests at the Reptile and Bird Rescue I work at...

Thank you SO much for this. I knew something sounded off, although I know very little about yellow fungus. I am strongly considering seeing if I can get him to a different reptile vet in the area this weekend for a second opinion... I had high hopes for this vet but they have been scratching their heads about this since the beginning and I'm beginning to lose faith in their ability to properly treat him. Maybe I should have known this earlier on but I wanted to believe that they knew what they were doing, I guess. :(

I did find another highly rated vet in the area, so I'm going to give them a call right now. I'm really glad you think that this doesn't look like yellow fungus, though, and after looking at pictures of it I agree. It's definitely not that bright yellow color I see on other beardies who have it.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Well, I've seen plenty of Yellow Fungus, and it actually can look quite different every time you see it, a lot of times it's very scabby looking, sometimes it's not scabby looking but just Yellow in color, sometimes it's a very bright Yellow, etc. Either way, that doesn't look like Yellow Fungus at all to me. Now that doesn't mean that it's not, and when in doubt it's always better to get the test done, in my opinion, especially since all that is required is a very non-invasive Skin-Scraping test that also doesn't cost very much and only takes a few days to get back...that's usually my pitch about actually having Yellow-Fungus testing done, that a Skin-Scraping test is cheap, quick, doesn't hurt them, and is definitely worth it...But if you vet actually used the word "Biopsy" and had to schedule this procedure for a week away, like it's a big deal that they're doing, then yeah, that's not good...If they were doing a "Biopsy" anyway, for some other reason anyway (like they wanted to test the tissue for a malignancy), then that's different, although now that i think about it, testing for Yellow Fungus is not a "pathology" test where you actually take a tissue sample, it's simply a microscopy test, at least in my experience it is. So if your vet's only reason for doing this "Biopsy" is to test for Yellow Fungus, then yeah, just say no. Your poor Dragon doesn't need to be put through anymore invasive procedures in that area unless they are necessary, and that is just not necessary.

I also have to say, looking at his other femoral pores, they're not at all that badly clogged, I mean yes, they're clogged, but they aren't clogged so badly that I would have done anything invasive to clean them out...Why? Because there is too great a risk of a bad infection, as you well know. Usually when femoral pores are only clogged like your Dragon's are, simply soaking them in warm water once a day for a couple of weeks, and then applying Coconut Oil or something similar directly on them each day after you soak them will loosen the wax build-up and remove it within a month or so. The only time I've seen medical intervention needed was when the pores were so full of build-up that the poor Dragon actually look like they have boulders or huge rocks under the skin of their legs, to the point that they can no longer walk or move normally. I mean, they get really, really awful sometimes, but I can't properly describe how bad they can get, only to say that your Dragon's pores probably could have been cleaned out in a non-invasive way at home that would not have resulted in any type of infection or necrosis...So yeah, i'd be questioning this vet...which is totally your right as her owner...
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
EllenD":v0p3365q said:
I also have to say, looking at his other femoral pores, they're not at all that badly clogged, I mean yes, they're clogged, but they aren't clogged so badly that I would have done anything invasive to clean them out...Why? Because there is too great a risk of a bad infection, as you well know. Usually when femoral pores are only clogged like your Dragon's are, simply soaking them in warm water once a day for a couple of weeks, and then applying Coconut Oil or something similar directly on them each day after you soak them will loosen the wax build-up and remove it within a month or so.


One of his femoral pores was pretty big, and did improve with the regular bathing... but I think they got invasive with this one because it began to turn red/black as you can see in the first picture. Was
that not the right thing to do? :( It started turning black before they actually unclogged it.

I'm so mad at myself for not checking with you guys first before going to any vets... I should have known better.

We don't have a "biopsy" scheduled - I didn't explain correctly. We have a weekly appointment to change the bandage and clean his wound, and the vet said that if the concerning area isn't clearing up by his next one, she'd consider a biopsy. But now that I know a biopsy isn't necessary, I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen.

I have an appointment for a second opinion with a new vet Wednesday morning. His usual weekly appointment with the first vet is Wednesday evening. So I should hopefully have some answers in about a week. :( Unfortunately, no one can give me an appointment before that. But I'm taking that day off to dedicate to him.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Yikes, I agree with Ellen this could have been resolved without all that invasive treatment that has really caused an infection now. No biopsy needed to test for Y.F, that would just be more pain and further irritation to that area. They should have done a simple skin scraping while you were there and they were taking off the " necrotic " tissue ! Vets need to realize that constantly bringing an animal in causes further stress and can make things worse.

BTW, I also don't think that look like Y.F. [ thankfully ] as far as I can see but this has been cause by the messing around + inflaming the irritated tissue.

I am thinking that this should be treated with raw unpasteurized honey + gauze that is changed every 2-3 days. Leaving an open wound covered like that for a week or so may be making it worse. Poor boy, how extremely uncomfortable + painful this must be. He can get through this but I think the vet actually caused the damage.
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
AHBD":3ja7sln4 said:
Yikes, I agree with Ellen this could have been resolved without all that invasive treatment that has really caused an infection now. No biopsy needed to test for Y.F, that would just be more pain and further irritation to that area. They should have done a simple skin scraping while you were there and they were taking off the " necrotic " tissue ! Vets need to realize that constantly bringing an animal in causes further stress and can make things worse.

BTW, I also don't think that look like Y.F. [ thankfully ] as far as I can see but this has been cause by the messing around + inflaming the irritated tissue.

I am thinking that this should be treated with raw unpasteurized honey + gauze that is changed every 2-3 days. Leaving an open wound covered like that for a week or so may be making it worse. Poor boy, how extremely uncomfortable + painful this must be. He can get through this but I think the vet actually caused the damage.

Ugh, this is so awful... I feel so terribly guilty for letting all this happen. :(

Is it safe for me to treat the open wound by myself like that? It literally looks like a raw steak at this point. It's exposed muscle.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Yes, raw honey can do wonders, vets are using it on horrific wounds that are even gangrenous. I wish I could find the vet thread that I used to post a couple years ago that had some of the most graphic images of huge upen wounds [ one dog's entire back, complete with pus + green slime ] that healed with raw honey. Here's one from a clinic in Germany of a human infant with a huge , unhealing sore that healed after using of honey when nothing else worked. Warning, pic is graphic

http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/honey-used-to-treat-wound-infections-in.html

I would slather honey on it + redress it every 2-3 days.
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
AHBD":3n28wuau said:
Yes, raw honey can do wonders, vets are using it on horrific wounds that are even gangrenous. I wish I could find the vet thread that I used to post a couple years ago that had some of the most graphic images of huge upen wounds [ one dog's entire back, complete with pus + green slime ] that healed with raw honey. Here's one from a clinic in Germany of a human infant with a huge , unhealing sore that healed after using of honey when nothing else worked. Warning, pic is graphic

http://apitherapy.blogspot.com/2007/06/honey-used-to-treat-wound-infections-in.html

I would slather honey on it + redress it every 2-3 days.

Ok, thank you. I may try that this weekend. Should i soak the area in anything like betadine before applying? Or clean it in any way?
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I misunderstood about the appointment for a Biopsy, but the fact that she even said the word "Biopsy" is a red flag, and I don't know why she needs to be "considering" anything. If she thinks that he might have Yellow Fungus then she should have just said "It may be Yellow Fungus, I'm concerned that it is, if you hang-on a minute I'll take a quick Skin-Scraping and we'll know for sure in a day or two"...That's how easy this process is. And no, she should have left that pore alone other than using a topical antibiotic if it looked red, irritated, etc. As AHBD said, unfortunately he's in this condition because the vet did what they did. This isn't your fault at all, don't even think we're saying that, you trusted a vet, and why wouldn't you. We're just getting really very frustrated with this specific problem, lately it has been out of control, we've had multiple Dragons literally medicated to death in the past month due to "Exotics" Vets that don't have a clue what they're doing. And one of them actually talked the owner into paying for a necropsy, only to find out that the Dragon died of Kidney Failure, which we had already told him was the cause, due to the same vet poisoning the dragon with a medication that should never be given to Reptile in-general for a low count of Pinworms that weren't even causing any issues, it was simply a babies first "Wellness Exam"...That's how bad this problem is with these vets that are doing procedures, giving medications, and making irresponsible decisions instead of just saying "I'm not sure what I want to do here, let me consult a Reptile Specialist first"...

I think it would probably make you feel better to get the Skin-Scraping test done to rule-out Yellow Fungus for sure, since this vet has done a good job of worrying you to death, so no harm at all in getting a Skin Scraping test done on the area that she was concerned about (To be totally honest with you, I'm looking at the photo again and I'm still not exactly sure what area on him this vet is concerned about being Yellow Fungus, lol). So yes, if you can simply get him to a vet that is ready and willing to do a Skin Scraping test and then send it off, and that's it, that's all they are going to do and they know about it ahead of time, then that's fine, no harm at all and it will make you feel so much better, and sometimes we're wrong too, we're not vets, but honestly lately I'm not sure that means anything anymore...But I would not put your dragon through anymore bandaging, debridement, etc.

I totally agree with AHBD that your Dragon having that gauze wrap on all this time, covered up with Vet Wrap, so that no air can hit the area, this is what is going to cause a fungal infection! Not Yellow Fungus, but rather just a secondary fungal infection due to the moisture trapped under the bandage, lol. He'd be much better off just having it open and having a topical antibiotic or the raw, unpasteurized honey put on it twice a day; keep it clean and dry, and he'd be much better off. Just keeping their scales covered up like that for more than a day or two can cause problems to healthy scales, let along a raw area like that. I'm looking at that current photo with the necrotic tissue around the pore itself and I'm wondering what in the world this vet did in the first place that was supposed to help...
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
No betadine soaks, I'm sure the vet already put some antiseptic on but it's not needed now. I think the raw honey WITH a bandage at first [ before leaving it open ] so he doesn't rub it on anything in his tank while it's raw. Also that will keep the honey in contact with the wound, and the honey has powerful antimicrobial properties.
 

Dreamwritten

Juvie Member
Original Poster
AHBD":1fh4kxrk said:
No betadine soaks, I'm sure the vet already put some antiseptic on but it's not needed now. I think the raw honey WITH a bandage at first [ before leaving it open ] so he doesn't rub it on anything in his tank while it's raw. Also that will keep the honey in contact with the wound, and the honey has powerful antimicrobial properties.

Okay. I'm so uncomfortable doing this with an open wound myself. Maybe I should bring the honey in for an emergency appointment and have them apply it?

But if they don't seem to know what they are doing, I don't see how that would help...

What would I use to affix the gauze? Medical tape around his leg?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Yes, just get some gauze at any drug store and apply the honey liberally, then tape it around his legs. I once had a dragon wound his eye and I used honey , gauze + tape to fix him a " pirate patch ". It worked perfectly and everything healed up within a week or so. I know your boy has a much more severe wound but I think it will work and if you just look at how they have it now, do it in a similar way. Get all the stuff laid out , even have the pieces of tape ready and it shouldn't take too long.
 
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