Infertile eggs?

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Caitlinp99

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Hi. I recently posted about my beardie acting different and her habits changing, etc. I took her to the vet today and they couldn’t find anything wrong with her, I asked if it could be eggs but he couldn’t tell just by feeling her stomach as her stomach feels like it always does. He mentioned that it could be a follicle problem and that requires her to be spayed. I just looked this up and it sounds pretty terrifying with the operation.
She’s been very active recently and is scratching at the walls of the viv. She’s been eating her livefood as usual for the past few days, but this evening she seemed to want to run around her viv instead of eating.
She is only 8 months old so I know it’s very young for her to start laying. She’s my first reptile so I’m not really sure about introducing a lay box.
Does the box need to be in her viv or can it be outside of her viv?
Thanks!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there , you can put one in the tank or make a larger one out of a medium plastic tote filled about 10" deep with damp sand. Pile it high on one side and start a tunnel for her by hand.

The smaller one can look like this, filed with damp sand + put right in her tank.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30026/full
My girls used this all the time.
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":3cp2o6jh said:
Hi there , you can put one in the tank or make a larger one out of a medium plastic tote filled about 10" deep with damp sand. Pile it high on one side and start a tunnel for her by hand.

The smaller one can look like this, filed with damp sand + put right in her tank.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30026/full
My girls used this all the time.

Thank you! I’m not even sure if she’s gravid, but she’s been acting strange lately.
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":315mz28i said:
Hi there , you can put one in the tank or make a larger one out of a medium plastic tote filled about 10" deep with damp sand. Pile it high on one side and start a tunnel for her by hand.

The smaller one can look like this, filed with damp sand + put right in her tank.

https://www.beardeddragon.org/media/30026/full
My girls used this all the time.

Do you know how big the box is that you use for the smaller one?
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":384vr1hh said:
It's about 22 long X 13 wide X 7-8 high.

Thanks. I had a look on google images and saw these, would one around the size of these be okay? One of them looks like a washing up bowl, would I be able to use that?
95530-9456194597.jpg
95530-1620858792.jpg
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":2j90p6lw said:
It's about 22 long X 13 wide X 7-8 high.

I just bought a box and some komodo natural sand, does this look okay or should I add more sand? I haven’t dampened it yet. I’m so stuck with her because she might not even be gravid, she’s only 8 months.
95530-8989249398.jpg
95530-2841686136.jpg
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
That's fine, but you do need to dampen it so it clumps, but you don't want it "wet" or "soaking". Just so she will be able to dig a tunnel to bury the eggs in.

The vet shouldn't have scared you about "spaying" her, lol. They all first develop follicles which in-turn form into eggs, just like all female creatures pretty much do, even people. So if she's only in the stage where she's developed follicles then she won't be ready to lay eggs yet, as she won't have actually made the eggs yet, and follicles can't always be seen on an x-ray, only calcified eggs can be seen on a plain-film x-ray. You can see follicles on an ultrasound (usually), which would simply tell you that yes, she's going to be laying eggs soon. The process in which they develop eggs is very similar to how female people do, they develop a follicle when triggered by the correct hormone to do so, and eventually this follicle forms an egg, which is released, the difference obviously being that their follicles turn into shelled eggs, which require a large amount of calcium to form them, so please do make sure that you're giving her extra calcium, I'd be dusting her insects in a calcium powder every day and a multivitamin maybe 4 days a week, and giving her extra live insects so that she is getting enough nutrition and hydration so that no calcium and other vitamins/minerals is leeched from her body to make the eggs.

The problem the vet was referring to was that sometimes they actually end up reabsorbing the egg-follicles before they form actual eggs, and this can result in a severe calcium deficiency, gout, and other health issues. But you're not there yet, and the vet had no reason to even alarm you like that without even doing an ultrasound and knowing if she has even developed follicles yet. She may actually have some eggs inside her already, the vet doesn't know that or not, so bringing up problems that can arise without even knowing what's actually going on is not cool...Most dragons develop the eggs and lay them just fine without any issues at all, just as long as they get enough calcium, multivitamins, and extra food. That's key.
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":11g89fue said:
That's fine, but you do need to dampen it so it clumps, but you don't want it "wet" or "soaking". Just so she will be able to dig a tunnel to bury the eggs in.

The vet shouldn't have scared you about "spaying" her, lol. They all first develop follicles which in-turn form into eggs, just like all female creatures pretty much do, even people. So if she's only in the stage where she's developed follicles then she won't be ready to lay eggs yet, as she won't have actually made the eggs yet, and follicles can't always be seen on an x-ray, only calcified eggs can be seen on a plain-film x-ray. You can see follicles on an ultrasound (usually), which would simply tell you that yes, she's going to be laying eggs soon. The process in which they develop eggs is very similar to how female people do, they develop a follicle when triggered by the correct hormone to do so, and eventually this follicle forms an egg, which is released, the difference obviously being that their follicles turn into shelled eggs, which require a large amount of calcium to form them, so please do make sure that you're giving her extra calcium, I'd be dusting her insects in a calcium powder every day and a multivitamin maybe 4 days a week, and giving her extra live insects so that she is getting enough nutrition and hydration so that no calcium and other vitamins/minerals is leeched from her body to make the eggs.

The problem the vet was referring to was that sometimes they actually end up reabsorbing the egg-follicles before they form actual eggs, and this can result in a severe calcium deficiency, gout, and other health issues. But you're not there yet, and the vet had no reason to even alarm you like that without even doing an ultrasound and knowing if she has even developed follicles yet. She may actually have some eggs inside her already, the vet doesn't know that or not, so bringing up problems that can arise without even knowing what's actually going on is not cool...Most dragons develop the eggs and lay them just fine without any issues at all, just as long as they get enough calcium, multivitamins, and extra food. That's key.

Hi. Thank you so much. The vet told us so much it was hard to take it all in, he recommended getting insurance for her just in case she does need to be spayed as it costs £600. The problem is though, is that I don’t know if she even has any eggs. She has been scratching at the walls of her viv and bumping her nose against the glass, and she isn’t very interested in her food. I tried putting her in the lay box after dampening it and she hated it, she just kept climbing out. She’s been like this for about a week now, and has recently started leaving these runny urates in her viv with no poop. I’m so stressed about her but I have no idea what it could be as the vet thought she was fine and was happy with her weight, her eyes, etc. She’s so young to be laying eggs but I know it can happen at this age. I took a stool sample to the vet to have it tested for parasites, but he said to come back with a diarrhoea sample because the sample I provided looked healthy to him.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
It's best to fill it a little more and mix the water in, then put the lid back on after ypou cut a hole in the corner. When you have the lid on it will help her to feel like she's in a cave or nest right away.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
So this vet talked to you about her possibly needing to be spayed, but he didn't do an ultrasound or even an x-ray to see if she even had follicles or eggs? I'm confused now, lol...no wonder you're freaking out, I would be too.

Trying to sell you pet insurance in case she needs to be spayed, yet he didn't even do any imaging to confirm she even has follicles or eggs? That's horrible...seriously, please, find a new vet...

Just as an FYI, I don't know about the UK, but in the US pet insurance covers basically nothing for a reptile at all, and is definitely worthless, and that's from all insurance companies. So first of all don't purchase insurance based on what's going on right now, that vet didn't even look to see if she had follicles/eggs yet he scared you to death telling you she probably needs spayed (which she doesn't), and then he has the balls to try to sell you pet insurance to cover this spay surgery when again, he didn't run imaging tests to even confirm whether or not she has follicles/eggs, and even if she does that certain does not in any way mean she needs to be spayed. In fact most dragons lay their eggs just fine with no issues at all, and only after a couple of troubled clutches do they even talk about spaying them, as it's a very invasive surgery.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst vet experiences I've ever heard of. It's totally ridiculous. Just keep putting her in the lay box when she scratches, and if she's not digging a tunnel after an hour or so then put her back in her tank. It can take time for them to lay their eggs and it does take patience, but you don't even know if this is her issue...
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
EllenD":847nm2rv said:
So this vet talked to you about her possibly needing to be spayed, but he didn't do an ultrasound or even an x-ray to see if she even had follicles or eggs? I'm confused now, lol...no wonder you're freaking out, I would be too.

Trying to sell you pet insurance in case she needs to be spayed, yet he didn't even do any imaging to confirm she even has follicles or eggs? That's horrible...seriously, please, find a new vet...

Just as an FYI, I don't know about the UK, but in the US pet insurance covers basically nothing for a reptile at all, and is definitely worthless, and that's from all insurance companies. So first of all don't purchase insurance based on what's going on right now, that vet didn't even look to see if she had follicles/eggs yet he scared you to death telling you she probably needs spayed (which she doesn't), and then he has the balls to try to sell you pet insurance to cover this spay surgery when again, he didn't run imaging tests to even confirm whether or not she has follicles/eggs, and even if she does that certain does not in any way mean she needs to be spayed. In fact most dragons lay their eggs just fine with no issues at all, and only after a couple of troubled clutches do they even talk about spaying them, as it's a very invasive surgery.

I'm sorry, but this is one of the worst vet experiences I've ever heard of. It's totally ridiculous. Just keep putting her in the lay box when she scratches, and if she's not digging a tunnel after an hour or so then put her back in her tank. It can take time for them to lay their eggs and it does take patience, but you don't even know if this is her issue...

There aren’t many exotic vets in my area, so I’m pretty limited. If she doesn’t get any better this week, I’ll have to give him a call and ask for her to have an X-ray or at least a fecal test for parasites.
There are only two exotic pet insurance companies in the uk, and it says they cover death, vet fees, and theft.
She hasn’t eaten anything today and has been scratching at the walls of her viv again. I tried putting her in her lay box again but she just climbs out of it as soon as I put her in. It’s been suggested to me that maybe she’s slowing down with the weather as she’s not eating, but she’s still more active than usual and isn’t sleeping during the day.
I’ve only had her for five months and I would hate for anything to happen to her, I just wish I could’ve at least been told a yes or no answer to whether she has eggs or parasites.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
There's no real need to worry, this is perfectly normal behavior for a young, restless female that is possibly carrying eggs. Can you post pics of her ? And did you add water to the sand, mix it so it's just enough to hold it's shape if you clump it up and then put the lid on ? Without the lid she will not feel like she has a cave. And some dragons will surprise you and just decide to lay them outside the box after all their fretting. But nothing is out of the ordinary, no need to spend money at the vets. I've had plenty of females lay eggs, none ever had a problem. The only time you would worry is if she stopped moving + just laid around, black beard, possibly gaping. Then you'd want to get her to the vet.
 

Caitlinp99

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":76n0q1aq said:
There's no real need to worry, this is perfectly normal behavior for a young, restless female that is possibly carrying eggs. Can you post pics of her ? And did you add water to the sand, mix it so it's just enough to hold it's shape if you clump it up and then put the lid on ? Without the lid she will not feel like she has a cave. And some dragons will surprise you and just decide to lay them outside the box after all their fretting. But nothing is out of the ordinary, no need to spend money at the vets. I've had plenty of females lay eggs, none ever had a problem. The only time you would worry is if she stopped moving + just laid around, black beard, possibly gaping. Then you'd want to get her to the vet.

Here are some recent photos.
95530-768245231.jpg
95530-2635017066.jpg
I just went to check on her and found her scratching at the corner of her viv. I’m going to try putting the laybox in her viv today. Should I place it under the lights?
I dampened the sand and made a little hole for her, but all she does it want out. I put the lid on, leaving a little gap and she just found her way out of that.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
She's very pretty, nice red with the blue bars. :) I think you had pics of her in another thread if I remember correctly. It's O.K if she goes in + out, that's normal. And this is just precautionary, she may not have eggs to lay but if she does then you are set because she has her box. Other than that she'll burn up her youthful energy which is fine. The laybox can be in the middle or cool side, you don't want it to get too hot in there.
 
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