New baby bearded dragon

Troybrennan47 · Jan 10, 2018

Hey there. New comer hope everyone is having a good New Years so far!
Start off with the setup as I'm sure this will be asked ?
20L
Reptisun 10.0 tube fluorescent I believe t5.
100 watt zoo med basking bulb.
Digital probe cool side 81
Digital probe directly under light 110
Digital probe off to the side 95
No substrate other then paper towels.
Fed crickets and a salad of collard red pepper escarole mix
Cage cleaned daily leftover crickets killed and discarded.
Cleaner is fh-10 diluted with water. As per instructions
Cricket container swept up daily. I hate the smell!
Was giving baths daily but have cut back. I'll explain why.
Clean fecal
Has been with me for about 3 weeks.
15 grams when I got her currently 26/37 grams approximately 9"
Dusting 5 days cal d3
1 day dust vit

Symptoms
Watery runny poop white urates
Closes eye often or eyes hard to tell. Will immediately open and look at me if I approach to inspect. Although the she is going through a shed or just finishing one; since I got her she's been shedding one body part at a time but it has finally completed. Observed her scratching against her log on her head.

So I am a little confused. I am not new to bearded dragon keeping although I did get one a month ago who had an RI who passed rip. Bad luck and bad breeder but stuff happens. Appetite seems a little low but still eating could be caused from shed? Not sure. Regular bowel movement.
Idk if I would call them diahrea but deff just loose and runny. Urates are always nice and white so I have since stopped bathing daily. Possibly a cause? And ideas guys and gals? She doesn't seem like she's happy doesn't seem like she's miserable either. She spends most of her day on her log which is under the heat lamp. She moves from various parts on the log when she's hot or wants to be hotter etc.
she shows great interest in food but she is a lazy hunter for sure. She doesn't appear to be skinny either but she is a little small. Always has a nice fat tummy.

CooperDragon · Jan 10, 2018

It sounds like she's growing pretty well. The shedding can definitely impact mood and appetite. Face sheds can cause some eye irritation and that usually subsides when the shed is done. Is she drinking in the bath? If she likes baths it's OK to offer them but if she seems stressed I'd just offer them when she needs to be cleaned. They aren't really necessary otherwise and not worth the stress they can cause. The crickets can cause stinky loose poop sometimes. It's good to have a fecal test done as part of a regular vet visit but unless the runny poops continue for several weeks or start to become clear the room stinky I wouldn't worry about that too much. Can you post photos of her? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them to your thread using the XIMG button.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 11, 2018

CooperDragon":2gqdx7zp said:
It sounds like she's growing pretty well. The shedding can definitely impact mood and appetite. Face sheds can cause some eye irritation and that usually subsides when the shed is done. Is she drinking in the bath? If she likes baths it's OK to offer them but if she seems stressed I'd just offer them when she needs to be cleaned. They aren't really necessary otherwise and not worth the stress they can cause. The crickets can cause stinky loose poop sometimes. It's good to have a fecal test done as part of a regular vet visit but unless the runny poops continue for several weeks or start to become clear the room stinky I wouldn't worry about that too much. Can you post photos of her? You can upload photos here https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ and post them to your thread using the XIMG button.

Thanks for the replies. As a precaution from loose stools I went and did a fecal before applying. Came back negative so I'm not sure. Loose stools been going on for a few wks. Not overly stinky but she has been shedding. Seems lazier than other dragons but is eating well. Still closing eyes often.
I will try to post photos. New to sight not good with tech lol.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 11, 2018

Troybrennan47 · Jan 11, 2018

That picture with her belly you can see it's nice and fat. She still looks frail

CooperDragon · Jan 11, 2018

She looks pretty healthy. Her arms and legs should fill in eventually. How far is your T5 bulb above the basking area? Want to be sure she's getting optimal UVB so she can process nutrients efficiently. That poop actually looks pretty good to me. Much better formed than what my dragon produces (he has digestive issues ongoing though).

kingofnobbys · Jan 11, 2018

I agree - nothing to worry about here, and you seem to have it all together and are doing just fine.

Only I'd give the salad and grated/finely chopped veg AFTER the second live insect meal of the day and drop the basking temp to 105 F (to give it a safety margin) and bump up the photo period to 15 - 16 hr per day.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 11, 2018

CooperDragon":1d8gvktv said:
She looks pretty healthy. Her arms and legs should fill in eventually. How far is your T5 bulb above the basking area? Want to be sure she's getting optimal UVB so she can process nutrients efficiently. That poop actually looks pretty good to me. Much better formed than what my dragon produces (he has digestive issues ongoing though).

In that picture of the poop it is prob her best formed one usually it resembles semi formed diahrea ish looks. Hard to tell cuz she sits on her perch n it falls to the tank floor.
Last two days I noticed her having trouble pooping. I noticed it today after I submitted pics. Hardly any poop coming out even though she is eating. Honestly confused. I felt she's been ill for over a wk/best guess would be just shy of two wks! Maybe not ill but not 100% healthy. Her loose stool was my main concern so I got a decal came back 100% negative. This was with a very fresh stool less than 1 hr after. Also brought the night before which was refrigerated. 2 negative results.
I witnessed her pooping today however only specs of actual poop has come out so I am beginning to think its slight impaction.
I had my wife feed her applesauce unsweetened 1 tbls with half tbsp olive oil as much as she could eat and then bathe her. Obv she put way too much water which I was not happy with but she got her to poop. It's stuck on her log but it's prob the best formed poop I have seen in 2 wks, nice black and white urate. Rubbed her tummy tonight after lights out for about 10 min and will bathe her tomorrow and feed; hopefully will continue to improve.
Uvb sits approximately 5/6 inches from perch at its closest point and goes as far as 9 inches from lowest point. Fixture is zip tied on the under part of the screen so no blockage from the light. Fresh bulb.
I think for the next few days only salad and baby food touch of olive oil until I feel comfortable introducing crickets again.
She looks healthy when eating but she closes her eyes often. I think the symptoms: closes eyes, appetite loss, laziness, and runny stool fits an impaction which really bothers me. Idk how long this has been going on but from day one I got her I noticed I digested baby supers in her poop. And there's been several nice poops after and she's being fed 1/4" crix with me along with salad well within the space btwn her eyes.
I have giving her small dubias when I can find them,Florida illegal, and baby hornworms as a treat. So I honestly can't say when the impaction started. I'm just happy I got a nice formed poop today.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 11, 2018

kingofnobbys":27f2ntwu said:
I agree - nothing to worry about here, and you seem to have it all together and are doing just fine.

Only I'd give the salad and grated/finely chopped veg AFTER the second live insect meal of the day and drop the basking temp to 105 F (to give it a safety margin) and bump up the photo period to 15 - 16 hr per day.

First off I just want to thank you guys for the responses.
I work everyday except Monday 12 HR days so I don't have a luxury of doing the salad thing multiple feedings schedule. I wake up feed go back to sleep and then right before work I feed and salad together. I always make sure there's about 1-20 crickets left to feed throughout the day after the first one plus the salad.
Basking spot at its lowest point is 105. Highest point gets hotter she doesn't tend to get right underneath it unless she has eaten.
Currently I have a 14 on 10 off light schedule. Typically about 1 hr before lights off I find her starting to try and sleep already lol. You think that's sufficient or should I add another hr or so?
I just want to add that this dragon is from beardeddragoncentral and the last one I got was sold with beginning cases of RI and died after its final treatment of meds prescribed by a reptile specialist; and this one is having problems I am not very happy with this company and will not be going back. I recommend people stay away. Just my honest opinion.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 12, 2018

So after the olive oil and applesauce trick she did poop was a small hard one. But then I wake up to this after messaging her and waiting I fell asleep and woke and this is what I see.

Largest poop I have seen from her in 2 wks. I think she may have been impacted slightly because she has been dropping poos but just tiny ones and she has been eating

EllenD · Jan 12, 2018

First of all, are you certain your UVB tube is the T5HO, or is it the T8? I'm asking because if it's the T5HO and you have it mounted that close to her, then that can definitely cause eye issues. If it's the weaker T8 UVB tube then yes, it needs to be under the mesh lid and within about 6" of her basking spot/platform, however if it's the much stronger T5HO then it can actually sit on top of the mesh lid, it's strong enough to still emit adequate UVB/UVA light to her on the other side of the mesh as long as her basking spot/platform is within 11". So you see the problem if it's a T5 and you have it within 5-6" of her basking spot, it's a very strong UVb tube that will definitely cause eye problems if it's too close. So double check that, if it's the weaker T8 tube then you're fine and just be sure to replace it every 6 months at the oldest, if it is the much stronger T5 tube then you need to back it away from her basking spot to about 11".

As far as baths go, they don't absorb any water at all during a bath unless they actively drink the water through their mouths. They absorb no hydration through their skin or vents while "soaking" in water, that's a horrible internet myth that causes people and even "exotics" vets who don't know any better to bath the poor things every single day. There is no standing water, or very little standing water, in the desert where they're naturally from, and in the wild they pretty much get all of their hydration from the live insects they eat and from the vegetation they eat. So unless she's dirty then she doesn't need a bath, unless she obviously really enjoys them, which is doubtful. Usually they just cause very unnecessary stress.

As Knobbys already said and I totally agree, they need a ton of live insect protein during their first year of life, not a bunch of greens/veggies, which is the reason that most dragons hardly eat any greens/veggies at all until they are at least a year old. So if you happen to have a dragon who likes greens/veggies then you need to hold back on them until she has already had 2 10-15 minute live insect feeding sessions where she is allowed to eat as many live insects as she wants to eat in that 10-15 minutes. This is very crucial if you want her to grow and develop properly. If she fills up on greens/veggies or eats enough of them that it causes her to eat less live insect protein than she normally would, this is not good. It's also most likely the reason that her bowel movements are runny/have a lot of hydration in them, it's from all the fresh greens and veggies she's eating. You need to not give her any fresh greens/veggies until after her 2nd live insect feeding session of the day where she's eaten unlimited live insects in a 10-15 minute period, then after she eats her second live insect feeding session you can put in fresh greens/veggies for her to nibble on, but they just aren't nearly as important at her age as the live insects are. Not even close. it's good that she's well-hydrated due to the greens and veggies, but she'll also get adequate hydration from the live insects, especially if you gut-load your live insects with the same greens/veggies you feed her.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 12, 2018

EllenD":13ltcmoo said:
First of all, are you certain your UVB tube is the T5HO, or is it the T8? I'm asking because if it's the T5HO and you have it mounted that close to her, then that can definitely cause eye issues. If it's the weaker T8 UVB tube then yes, it needs to be under the mesh lid and within about 6" of her basking spot/platform, however if it's the much stronger T5HO then it can actually sit on top of the mesh lid, it's strong enough to still emit adequate UVB/UVA light to her on the other side of the mesh as long as her basking spot/platform is within 11". So you see the problem if it's a T5 and you have it within 5-6" of her basking spot, it's a very strong UVb tube that will definitely cause eye problems if it's too close. So double check that, if it's the weaker T8 tube then you're fine and just be sure to replace it every 6 months at the oldest, if it is the much stronger T5 tube then you need to back it away from her basking spot to about 11".

As far as baths go, they don't absorb any water at all during a bath unless they actively drink the water through their mouths. They absorb no hydration through their skin or vents while "soaking" in water, that's a horrible internet myth that causes people and even "exotics" vets who don't know any better to bath the poor things every single day. There is no standing water, or very little standing water, in the desert where they're naturally from, and in the wild they pretty much get all of their hydration from the live insects they eat and from the vegetation they eat. So unless she's dirty then she doesn't need a bath, unless she obviously really enjoys them, which is doubtful. Usually they just cause very unnecessary stress.

As Knobbys already said and I totally agree, they need a ton of live insect protein during their first year of life, not a bunch of greens/veggies, which is the reason that most dragons hardly eat any greens/veggies at all until they are at least a year old. So if you happen to have a dragon who likes greens/veggies then you need to hold back on them until she has already had 2 10-15 minute live insect feeding sessions where she is allowed to eat as many live insects as she wants to eat in that 10-15 minutes. This is very crucial if you want her to grow and develop properly. If she fills up on greens/veggies or eats enough of them that it causes her to eat less live insect protein than she normally would, this is not good. It's also most likely the reason that her bowel movements are runny/have a lot of hydration in them, it's from all the fresh greens and veggies she's eating. You need to not give her any fresh greens/veggies until after her 2nd live insect feeding session of the day where she's eaten unlimited live insects in a 10-15 minute period, then after she eats her second live insect feeding session you can put in fresh greens/veggies for her to nibble on, but they just aren't nearly as important at her age as the live insects are. Not even close. it's good that she's well-hydrated due to the greens and veggies, but she'll also get adequate hydration from the live insects, especially if you gut-load your live insects with the same greens/veggies you feed her.

She typically eats no salad ever. But I do offer it. She eats anywhere from 30-50 crickets a day. She's not being starved of protein but she has not been pooping any actual poop for over a wk. I truely believe is was a small impaction and will stay the course of holding off until I get one more poop and see how it looks. I believe she looked more lively and a little relieved today compared to the last wk.

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/environmental-control-and-lighting/bulbs-and-lamps/zoo-medandtrade-reptisun-10.0-uvb-reptile-lamp-14822.html?cgid=500110

This is the bulb I currently have I am unsure if it's a t5. It does not say whether it is a t5 or t8. Maybe I will move it on the top of the cage starting tomorrow. Now I am second guessing. It is within 6" at its closest point under its light. No screen under it though. Maybe I will try this and see.

AHBD · Jan 12, 2018

The package looks like it's the t8. The t5 package is same color but looks different. Just turn it over + take a pic of the bulb. The t5 is super skinny, the t8 is like a normal flourescent bulb thickness.

Hopefully this baby is gong to be O.K, some trans. dragons [ I think that's what he is ? ] are overbred or just come from unhealthy stock. Not saying that's what it is but the trans. gene is iffy depending on who is breeding them'. BTW, that poo looks fine.

CooperDragon · Jan 12, 2018

The 17w bulb is a 24'' T8 (15w is 18'' T8). Optimal output is about 6-8'' without any screen intercepting UVB.

Troybrennan47 · Jan 12, 2018

AHBD":8w7llezl said:
The package looks like it's the t8. The t5 package is same color but looks different. Just turn it over + take a pic of the bulb. The t5 is super skinny, the t8 is like a normal flourescent bulb thickness.

Hopefully this baby is gong to be O.K, some trans. dragons [ I think that's what he is ? ] are overbred or just come from unhealthy stock. Not saying that's what it is but the trans. gene is iffy depending on who is breeding them'. BTW, that poo looks fine.

Ya I hope so as well. I thought it was a t8. I'm checking tonight.
She is a hypo trans fire red. She's beautiful. Inbreeding has crossed my mind. 2 dragon same breeder same morph first one RI. Noticed that after the first day. Big vet bill stinks. But I have high hopes for my little baby.

New baby bearded dragon

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