Strongyle parasite infection

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phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Hello all! So I had a fecal test done for my Iggy yesterday and it came back today with a low concentration of strongyle parasites. The vet wants to treat this with a medication that the Dragon takes orally, I forget the name but can call up and ask if needed once again, but my question to the community here is whether this is necessary? It's a parasite I haven't heard of before and have no knowledge on so I'd be grateful for any replies, thank you.

Other than this, Iggy is bright and alert, eating unbelievable quantities of woodies, pooping normally and drinking water every several days. His chart is below:

95175-209419560.jpg
 

VenusAndSaturn

Sub-Adult Member
It most likely needs to be treated. From what ive found apparently the parisite sucks the blood from the reptile causing weak blood flow.

This the larva of a strongyle parasite, likely Strongyloides. This parasite came from a Panther Chameleon. They are very similar to hookworms and some people consider them the same but these guys have the capability of reproduction via eggs (like most parasites) but also by direct development into larvae, basically live-bearing. They use their mouth parts to attach to the intestinal mucosa and suck the reptile's blood. This causes the reptile to become anemic and have poor blood flow in the intestines therefore causing poor nutrient absorption in the gut. Strongyles are considered zoonotic as well so they can be passed to humans and as such, care must be taken when handling reptiles suspected to have these parasites. Wash your hands always, even if the reptile seems healthy. It is better safe than sorry.

http://reptileboards.com/threads/nematode-parasites.64245/ this is the site i found the info on.
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
VenusAndSaturn":2sqfrlvp said:
It most likely needs to be treated. From what ive found apparently the parisite sucks the blood from the reptile causing weak blood flow.

This the larva of a strongyle parasite, likely Strongyloides. This parasite came from a Panther Chameleon. They are very similar to hookworms and some people consider them the same but these guys have the capability of reproduction via eggs (like most parasites) but also by direct development into larvae, basically live-bearing. They use their mouth parts to attach to the intestinal mucosa and suck the reptile's blood. This causes the reptile to become anemic and have poor blood flow in the intestines therefore causing poor nutrient absorption in the gut. Strongyles are considered zoonotic as well so they can be passed to humans and as such, care must be taken when handling reptiles suspected to have these parasites. Wash your hands always, even if the reptile seems healthy. It is better safe than sorry.

http://reptileboards.com/threads/nematode-parasites.64245/ this is the site i found the info on.

Thank you so much! That is certainly a helpful load of information, exactly what I was after. The vet very kindly gave me the medicine for free as I wasn't able to pay until next Thursday, and he gave me a syringe with IV needle full of it to inject into the asses of a few cockroaches, which I then did before feeding to Iggy who happily ate them up :) The medicine is called ivermectin but I'm not aware of the dosage that was administered, it was just 0.1 mL in the syringe ^ ^
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I hate using Ivermectin for anything, not to scare you, but it's a very strong poison that is used in veterinary medicine to kill all types of parasites, mites, fleas, ticks, and other creepy crawlies...I'd be very concerned about giving it to him orally like that. Watch him carefully, if he black beards, becomes lethargic, loses his appetite, or vomits, he needs stop eating the dosed roaches immediately and call your vet. Ivermectin is just a poison that I won't mess with, I know other people on the board that have had issues with it causing vomiting. Just watch him.

And yes, they should have probably been treated, as they are an aggressive parasite similar to hook worms or fleas/ticks, that feed off of their host, but there had to be a safer drug than Ivermectin to try...just watch him closely, hopefully he'll be fine. I don't honestly know much about correct Ivermectin dosing, especially orally, for a Bearded Dragon, so I can't comment on whether the way you are doing it or the dose you're using is correct, but I bet Tracie might be able to access whether or not this is an appropriate dose for a dragon, and a safe delivery method, or if there is a safer Antiparasitic for him to take...
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Just to add, maybe for Tracie to comment on and correct me if I'm wrong, but Strongyles in bearded dragons, to the best of my limited knowledge, are usually successfully treated with Panacur in Bearded Dragons and other reptiles I believe? Just as Pinworms, hookworms, tapeworms, etc. are (same family of parasites). Panacur is not only less harsh (I just treated my 6 month old with Panacur orally for 3 days for a very high Pinworm count, with no issues at all and he's back to normal now), but it's not at all dangerous. Ivermectin is literally dangerous, you should do some research on this, as you can give Panacur directly to him and you don't have to dose his roaches first, because it's safe.

Just for an FYI, my Certified Reptile Vet gave Dee Dee Alfalfa meal that was medicated with Panacur as his Pinworm treatment, as Panacur doesn't actually kill Pinworms, it simply stops the females from laying eggs and additionally flushed them out of the GI tract. So the theory behind using the Alfalfa meal medicated with Panacur is that #1) The Alfalfa meal is a very healthy source of Purine-free protein so it gives them nutrition and keeps them from losing weight at the same time as they are taking their medication, and #2) The Alfalfa meal is a source of "bulk fiber", which also aids tremendously in "flushing" out the GI tract. He didn't get at all sick for this treatment, he started eating his BSFL immediately and his first follow-up fecal test after only 3 doses was negative (I mixed the powdered Alfalfa meal with baby food and Pedialyte, to prevent dehydration while everything was being flushed out of his GI tract)...I just really an weary of Ivermectin, it has caused poisoning in dogs and cats, and even in livestock (it's a common treatment for parasites in all types of livestock).
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
As my partner said after reading the comments you guys helpfully posted, they jumped to the powerful and poisonous stuff first, because they don't usually treat reptiles *sighs*. Thank you, everyone, this is immensely helpful. It was just the one dose so I don't know if that changes the dynamics or anything but I currently have Iggy against my chest, and it appeared as if he become dead all of a sudden. He stopped breathing and moving, and I had to inflict annoyance on him to get him to respond.

So because this was just the one dose as intended, will my Iggy be okay? He is VERY sick at the moment.
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
EllenD":o5tw6677 said:
Just to add, maybe for Tracie to comment on and correct me if I'm wrong, but Strongyles in bearded dragons, to the best of my limited knowledge, are usually successfully treated with Panacur in Bearded Dragons and other reptiles I believe? Just as Pinworms, hookworms, tapeworms, etc. are (same family of parasites). Panacur is not only less harsh (I just treated my 6 month old with Panacur orally for 3 days for a very high Pinworm count, with no issues at all and he's back to normal now), but it's not at all dangerous. Ivermectin is literally dangerous, you should do some research on this, as you can give Panacur directly to him and you don't have to dose his roaches first, because it's safe.

Just for an FYI, my Certified Reptile Vet gave Dee Dee Alfalfa meal that was medicated with Panacur as his Pinworm treatment, as Panacur doesn't actually kill Pinworms, it simply stops the females from laying eggs and additionally flushed them out of the GI tract. So the theory behind using the Alfalfa meal medicated with Panacur is that #1) The Alfalfa meal is a very healthy source of Purine-free protein so it gives them nutrition and keeps them from losing weight at the same time as they are taking their medication, and #2) The Alfalfa meal is a source of "bulk fiber", which also aids tremendously in "flushing" out the GI tract. He didn't get at all sick for this treatment, he started eating his BSFL immediately and his first follow-up fecal test after only 3 doses was negative (I mixed the powdered Alfalfa meal with baby food and Pedialyte, to prevent dehydration while everything was being flushed out of his GI tract)...I just really an weary of Ivermectin, it has caused poisoning in dogs and cats, and even in livestock (it's a common treatment for parasites in all types of livestock).

I'll ask for that next time I have parasites that need dealing with, and see if that is a viable option instead, thank you. I'm not sure why this particular poison was chosen as it was only the eggs that were present, the vet said, so they should be very easy to deal with. Maybe he wanted to kill the eggs themselves? Although if they can be flushed out, then I'm not sure why that wasn't offered as an option. I feel so bad for giving my Iggy this ;_; I hope he pulls through...
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
phobosdthorga":2ejznpen said:
As my partner said after reading the comments you guys helpfully posted, they jumped to the powerful and poisonous stuff first, because they don't usually treat reptiles *sighs*.''
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OMG !!! time to sack the vet , if he has very limited experience with reptile treatment and don't usually treat reptiles this vet is useless and will (and has !! in Iggy's case) do more harm than good.

I hope Iggy is OK and gets past this .... I'd be looking for another vet , this time one who has experience with reptiles and who is ACTUALLY competent and knowledgeable about the specifics of reptile health and treatment.
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Well, I'm not sure if things are taking a turn for the worse, but before I went to bed (which was extra early last night around 5 PM and I left my partner to turn off the lights) Iggy was brightening up a little and becoming a little more active, though upon awakening at 3:00 AM I notice this:

95175-1053217417.jpg

I don't know if it's due to the light being on, as he does sleep awkwardly and has some 'preferences', I will say, but this doesn't look good either way :( Should I be concerned? I'm not used to my Iggy doing this unless he's annoyed in some fashion at something.

kingofnobbys":3o14hznl said:
OMG !!! time to sack the vet , if he has very limited experience with reptile treatment and don't usually treat reptiles this vet is useless and will (and has !! in Iggy's case) do more harm than good.

I hope Iggy is OK and gets past this .... I'd be looking for another vet , this time one who has experience with reptiles and who is ACTUALLY competent and knowledgeable about the specifics of reptile health and treatment.

Strange you say that, I originally did this fecal test to determine the worthiness of the vet and after he determined there were strongyle parasites and decided to act on them, I became more trusting in him. Not after he decided to use such a strong medicine, now that I know, mind you. I do think he chose ivermectin though because he wanted to kill the eggs before they themselves became a larger problem. Unless the other medicines are still effective in their own ways for this? He is a very experienced vet and kindly person but yeah, I have NO IDEA how experienced he is towards reptiles.
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
I decided to wake my poor Iggy to check on him and the rock seemed to be 'puffing' up his beard ^ ^; Though it does seem a little puffier than usual regardless, and a little black. Should I still be alarmed at this? It could be that I just woke him though XD Though he doesn't quite have a clue what's going on yet.

95175-7214202708.jpg
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
Oh my...no, Ivermectin doesn't "kill the eggs", you can't really "kill the eggs", you just flush them out and make the females sterile if there are any left. Ivermectin would certainly kill all the host parasites, but honestly, I would not have treated them to begin with if the count/load was low.

Either way, at this point the concern is Iggy, as I'm positive he is very sick from the Ivermectin. I knew that was going to happen, that stuff is so strong that it's typically only used anymore on a regular basis to treat livestock, like cattle, horses, pigs, etc. Some old-time general vets will still use it TOPICALLY to treat ticks and such in dogs and cats, but never orally, and that's why I got horribly concerned when you wrote that you were dosing his roaches and then feeding them to him. The fact that this vet told you to dose his roaches instead of giving it to him orally in a direct manner tell me that he knew very well that Ivermectin is dangerous...

Honestly, I'd be giving Iggy Activated Charcoal at this point, due to the lethargy and the black beard. Suck up any that's left in his stomach, then give ample fluids to him several times throughout the day, and bump his temps up by 5-10 degrees.

I'm sorry this vet did this to him and to you, that sucks. He should have known better than to give Ivermectin to an animal as small as a Bearded Dragon, especially orally. I mean, this is stuff that I used to recommend to the farmers who sent their herd samples to me to test, and I would tell them to only use it topically on their cattle and not orally because there is a concern about poisoning. So giving it to a little lizard is just irresponsible and dangerous...

Was he sick from the parasites in the first place, or was this just a routine fecal that happened to show positive for low counts of them?
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
EllenD":1ugajx2h said:
Oh my...no, Ivermectin doesn't "kill the eggs", you can't really "kill the eggs", you just flush them out and make the females sterile if there are any left. Ivermectin would certainly kill all the host parasites, but honestly, I would not have treated them to begin with if the count/load was low.

Either way, at this point the concern is Iggy, as I'm positive he is very sick from the Ivermectin. I knew that was going to happen, that stuff is so strong that it's typically only used anymore on a regular basis to treat livestock, like cattle, horses, pigs, etc. Some old-time general vets will still use it TOPICALLY to treat ticks and such in dogs and cats, but never orally, and that's why I got horribly concerned when you wrote that you were dosing his roaches and then feeding them to him. The fact that this vet told you to dose his roaches instead of giving it to him orally in a direct manner tell me that he knew very well that Ivermectin is dangerous...

Honestly, I'd be giving Iggy Activated Charcoal at this point, due to the lethargy and the black beard. Suck up any that's left in his stomach, then give ample fluids to him several times throughout the day, and bump his temps up by 5-10 degrees.

I'm sorry this vet did this to him and to you, that sucks. He should have known better than to give Ivermectin to an animal as small as a Bearded Dragon, especially orally. I mean, this is stuff that I used to recommend to the farmers who sent their herd samples to me to test, and I would tell them to only use it topically on their cattle and not orally because there is a concern about poisoning. So giving it to a little lizard is just irresponsible and dangerous...

Was he sick from the parasites in the first place, or was this just a routine fecal that happened to show positive for low counts of them?

It was just a routine test that showed positive for low counts of this parasite. It's been two days now, should I still give the activated charcoal? I do have some on hand for matters like this, it's as little hardened capsules so they should be pretty easy to give to Iggy. I doubt there'll be any ivermectin left in his GI tract though, as it'll be all absorbed into his bloodstream :(

EDIT: I just wanted to post the above as quickly as possible, but I'll post the rest now I have more time. I did my own research afterwards and found the same thing, that yes, this is given as a dab on the skin and rarely orally. The tick and heartworm formula my mother uses for her pets has a modified form of ivermectin in it, for instance, probably to get around old patents and still make truckloads of cash. The vet I had seen is a VERY OLD timey vet and you are correct about that too. He is extremely old fashioned and straight-to-the-point about anything and everything. He's very short on manners :) So I don't think I'll be seeing this particular vet anymore. Thank you for all the information you have provided.
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
These are the activated charcoal tablets that I have. If needed, should I give them to Iggy directly via the maw, or what? Plus are they suitable?

95175-9204095266.jpg

95175-9790455028.jpg
 

phobosdthorga

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Sorry to make yet another post, but Iggy's condition has declined all of a sudden. He's become extremely tired and lethargic once again so I decided to give him some activated charcoal. I started by pushing the tablet on his muzzletip which he hated, but he eventually chewed up a little. I imagined that he consumed around 100 mg or so of activated charcoal.
 
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