MissCutiePatootie
Hatchling Member
Hello everyone, it's been quite some time since my last post! My 3 year old Malachi is what brings me back. Yesterday I took my dragon out while dropping my nephew off at home. A friend of a friend was so ecstatic seeing my dragon I let her hold him. While she was holding him I noticed my dragons head started to shake like it was shivering. A few things came to mind what it could mean.
1. Possibly impacted? This weekend I allowed my nephew to feed my dragon. My nephew is 9 and very fascinated with bugs and reptiles so cute! I was there to supervise but quite distracted as one of my cats had puked up a hairball for me to gag and clean up and my dragon had a hay day eating superworms! Probably 2-3x more than I would typically give him. The following day I gave him a bath before taking my nephew home and he defecated very little. I seen mostly urates and some fluids come out but very little fecal matter. So for now, I'm holding off any kind of chitinous meals until I see him pass these superworms. The possible connection I made to the head shakiness is maybe the impaction could be putting pressure on the spine? If he is impacted? His basking temperature is elevated due to summer heat and mostly hangs out in the middle-cool side of his tank - sometimes basking under the hot side. There's no doubt in my mind he has enough heat to properly digest his food. I check his thermometer/hygrometer throughout the day and turn his basking light off should it reach too high of ambient temperatures in his home for him to properly thermoregulate his body temperature.
I also have him on organic top soil (all large pieces have been plucked out by hand) and before anyone jumps down me for it lol I would never put any unhealthy animals on loose substrate. My goal was to see how he did with it to consider making him a bioactive setup. His veggies are fed to him on a plate or by hand. His insects come to him in a bowl held up to him for his own leisure. Accidental ingestion is limited aside from "tasting" his environment. I love my animals very much and observe them quite frequently. The most I've seen him ingest is a couple grains at a time that would easily be passed as he has always been healthy! Anything past that I've witnessed him spit out and have wiped his chin for him many times.
My point being, he does quite well and my gut says it's not the substrate. But I'm not saying it for sure isn't either.
2. A vitamin B deficiency? I know what this looks like because my old dragon of 9 years who passed away from leukemia 3 years ago had similar symptoms in her younger days. I took her to the vet and had blood and fecal tests done to find that she needed more thiamin. This was due to me feeding her frozen vegetables. At the time I was a very nooby dragon keeper and did not know better. After changing her diet she made a full recovery.
I don't feed my current dragon anything frozen. Only fresh veggies, fruits and bugs! He eats probably 4-5x a week. It's quite normal for him to not want to eat a couple days of the week. He's a healthy weight of over 521 grams. His feeding behavior has not changed at all. He eats fine on his own and readily accepts treats by hand. It's hard for me to imagine his diet lacking B vitamins as he gets everything fresh and I supplement his meals with vitamins + calcium 2-3x a week normally to fill in gaps. Here's a list of food he gets.
Every feeding..
-Mustard, turnip, collard greens and dandelion anytime I can (homegrown)
Other greens I feed occasionally if my usual mixed bag is unavail...
-Kale, cactus pads, arugula, spinach, bok choy, basil(homegrown), mint(homegrown), oregano(homegrown)
The rotated stuff in order from most to least...
-Bell peppers, green beans, cantaloupe, honey dew, blueberry, squash, watermelon, strawberry, zucchini, cherries (without the seed), and grapes.
And he gets bugs a couple times a week...
-Superworms, hornworms, Dubia (try to feed sparingly to help my colony grow)
He also gets a new Reptisun T5 10.0 HO bulb every 5-7 months depending on my budget at the time. I have it on top of his tank with a reflector behind the bulb to intensify it through the screen of his 40 gallon tank about a foot away from his basking rock. Towards the end of life of his bulbs I put them inside his tank mounted on the back wall with the reflector still on and that puts it about 8-9 inches away from him on his rock. His current bulb should last until December before reaching the 6 month mark. I feel that he's pretty well taken care of and should be getting all the vitamins and nutrients he needs to be healthy but maybe not! I don't dust his food every feeding. I use Rephashy calcium plus powder an all in one that I've been using for at least a year I wanna say. Before that I was using separate calcium and vitamins.
3. MBD - I just don't think this is the case. But I know it's one of the symptoms. He doesn't look to have it at all and his diet and lighting has always been good swapping between the zoomed T5 10.0HO with arcadia 12% UVB fluorescent lightings every 6 months. I got him from a reputable breeder. He's a partial trans, het hypo, super citrus dragon. His first year growing up I spoiled the crap out of the little guy buying him silkworms, phoenix worms, dubia and goliath worms easily spending over $100-150 a month feeding him and kept him in a sterile environment. I wanted him to have the best upbringing possible for him to grow strong and stable after going through so much losing my old dragon to leukemia. He's very spoiled. This summer I took him out to get natural sun quite often as well.
Those are the only 3 things I could come up with as to what's going on. I can't afford to take him to the vet for a $200+ dollar checkup&labs as I have my own medical bills I have to pay off right now. After doing some research I decided instead of buying more supplements I would start supplementing him with small smoothies of bee pollen mixed with unsweetened coconut water for the natural electrolytes and hydrating effects and thickening it so less chance of inhaling with rephashy grub pie insectivore gel premix 2x a week for a while to see if this helps soothe any digestive issues, and fill in any nutritional gaps more naturally rather than buying more vitamins. I have ordered a separate calcium powder to start supplementing with instead of the rephashy calcium plus all in one thing. I will be reverting back to a sterile environment again at least until he's 110% better and has a clean bill of health.
-I am curious if it is safe to use both bee pollen and a vitamin supplement together or if it would overdo it?
-Can you over do bee pollen alone? How much can I safely give him?
-Would supplementing with bee pollen be better than vitamin supplements altogether since it's more natural and not synthetic versions of vitamins? Or is bee pollen not balanced for beardies?
-What foods can I feed him that have high thiamin?
-What foods contain high thiaminase that deplete a dragons thiamin stores?
-Would Spirulina be better than bee pollen in this case? How much should I supplement?
-Would it be better to buy a B vitamin supplement alone to treat his symptom with? I know that a lot of vitamins need to work together to reap the benefits so that's why I'm leaning towards bee pollen atm.
-Could something else cause this symptom? It's the only symptom he has.
I'm open to anyone's thoughts on the matter. I want to gather as much information as I possibly can and in the mean time do everything in my power to make sure he's getting the best care I can provide. I appreciate anyone reading this and hope to receive some good input! Thanks guys!
1. Possibly impacted? This weekend I allowed my nephew to feed my dragon. My nephew is 9 and very fascinated with bugs and reptiles so cute! I was there to supervise but quite distracted as one of my cats had puked up a hairball for me to gag and clean up and my dragon had a hay day eating superworms! Probably 2-3x more than I would typically give him. The following day I gave him a bath before taking my nephew home and he defecated very little. I seen mostly urates and some fluids come out but very little fecal matter. So for now, I'm holding off any kind of chitinous meals until I see him pass these superworms. The possible connection I made to the head shakiness is maybe the impaction could be putting pressure on the spine? If he is impacted? His basking temperature is elevated due to summer heat and mostly hangs out in the middle-cool side of his tank - sometimes basking under the hot side. There's no doubt in my mind he has enough heat to properly digest his food. I check his thermometer/hygrometer throughout the day and turn his basking light off should it reach too high of ambient temperatures in his home for him to properly thermoregulate his body temperature.
I also have him on organic top soil (all large pieces have been plucked out by hand) and before anyone jumps down me for it lol I would never put any unhealthy animals on loose substrate. My goal was to see how he did with it to consider making him a bioactive setup. His veggies are fed to him on a plate or by hand. His insects come to him in a bowl held up to him for his own leisure. Accidental ingestion is limited aside from "tasting" his environment. I love my animals very much and observe them quite frequently. The most I've seen him ingest is a couple grains at a time that would easily be passed as he has always been healthy! Anything past that I've witnessed him spit out and have wiped his chin for him many times.
My point being, he does quite well and my gut says it's not the substrate. But I'm not saying it for sure isn't either.2. A vitamin B deficiency? I know what this looks like because my old dragon of 9 years who passed away from leukemia 3 years ago had similar symptoms in her younger days. I took her to the vet and had blood and fecal tests done to find that she needed more thiamin. This was due to me feeding her frozen vegetables. At the time I was a very nooby dragon keeper and did not know better. After changing her diet she made a full recovery.
I don't feed my current dragon anything frozen. Only fresh veggies, fruits and bugs! He eats probably 4-5x a week. It's quite normal for him to not want to eat a couple days of the week. He's a healthy weight of over 521 grams. His feeding behavior has not changed at all. He eats fine on his own and readily accepts treats by hand. It's hard for me to imagine his diet lacking B vitamins as he gets everything fresh and I supplement his meals with vitamins + calcium 2-3x a week normally to fill in gaps. Here's a list of food he gets.
Every feeding..
-Mustard, turnip, collard greens and dandelion anytime I can (homegrown)
Other greens I feed occasionally if my usual mixed bag is unavail...
-Kale, cactus pads, arugula, spinach, bok choy, basil(homegrown), mint(homegrown), oregano(homegrown)
The rotated stuff in order from most to least...
-Bell peppers, green beans, cantaloupe, honey dew, blueberry, squash, watermelon, strawberry, zucchini, cherries (without the seed), and grapes.
And he gets bugs a couple times a week...
-Superworms, hornworms, Dubia (try to feed sparingly to help my colony grow)
He also gets a new Reptisun T5 10.0 HO bulb every 5-7 months depending on my budget at the time. I have it on top of his tank with a reflector behind the bulb to intensify it through the screen of his 40 gallon tank about a foot away from his basking rock. Towards the end of life of his bulbs I put them inside his tank mounted on the back wall with the reflector still on and that puts it about 8-9 inches away from him on his rock. His current bulb should last until December before reaching the 6 month mark. I feel that he's pretty well taken care of and should be getting all the vitamins and nutrients he needs to be healthy but maybe not! I don't dust his food every feeding. I use Rephashy calcium plus powder an all in one that I've been using for at least a year I wanna say. Before that I was using separate calcium and vitamins.
3. MBD - I just don't think this is the case. But I know it's one of the symptoms. He doesn't look to have it at all and his diet and lighting has always been good swapping between the zoomed T5 10.0HO with arcadia 12% UVB fluorescent lightings every 6 months. I got him from a reputable breeder. He's a partial trans, het hypo, super citrus dragon. His first year growing up I spoiled the crap out of the little guy buying him silkworms, phoenix worms, dubia and goliath worms easily spending over $100-150 a month feeding him and kept him in a sterile environment. I wanted him to have the best upbringing possible for him to grow strong and stable after going through so much losing my old dragon to leukemia.
He's very spoiled. This summer I took him out to get natural sun quite often as well.Those are the only 3 things I could come up with as to what's going on. I can't afford to take him to the vet for a $200+ dollar checkup&labs as I have my own medical bills I have to pay off right now. After doing some research I decided instead of buying more supplements I would start supplementing him with small smoothies of bee pollen mixed with unsweetened coconut water for the natural electrolytes and hydrating effects and thickening it so less chance of inhaling with rephashy grub pie insectivore gel premix 2x a week for a while to see if this helps soothe any digestive issues, and fill in any nutritional gaps more naturally rather than buying more vitamins. I have ordered a separate calcium powder to start supplementing with instead of the rephashy calcium plus all in one thing. I will be reverting back to a sterile environment again at least until he's 110% better and has a clean bill of health.
-I am curious if it is safe to use both bee pollen and a vitamin supplement together or if it would overdo it?
-Can you over do bee pollen alone? How much can I safely give him?
-Would supplementing with bee pollen be better than vitamin supplements altogether since it's more natural and not synthetic versions of vitamins? Or is bee pollen not balanced for beardies?
-What foods can I feed him that have high thiamin?
-What foods contain high thiaminase that deplete a dragons thiamin stores?
-Would Spirulina be better than bee pollen in this case? How much should I supplement?
-Would it be better to buy a B vitamin supplement alone to treat his symptom with? I know that a lot of vitamins need to work together to reap the benefits so that's why I'm leaning towards bee pollen atm.
-Could something else cause this symptom? It's the only symptom he has.
I'm open to anyone's thoughts on the matter. I want to gather as much information as I possibly can and in the mean time do everything in my power to make sure he's getting the best care I can provide. I appreciate anyone reading this and hope to receive some good input! Thanks guys!
