Old Age or Brumation?

Hi, new member, mostly posting out of concern than anything else.

I've had my Bearded Dragon, His Holiness, a.k.a. Benny (we mostly just call him Benny), for 8 years as of a couple of weeks ago, adopting him from a couple of friends when he was around 2 years old, I think. So he's currently just north of 10 years old.

Since I've had him he's been in a tank that's 46cm tall, 46cm deep and 92cm long, so about 51 gallons if I'm converting right. He has a water bowl that's regularly topped up, a secondary bowl for any vegetables he might eat, although he predominantly eats locusts, and the heat bulb at the top of one end of his tank keeps the warmer end at about 32C to 37C depending on the time of year (it tends to drop below 30 in the early days of winter when we haven't sorted out radiators to keep the house warm).

Up until, oo, I think it was some time in early November of 2016 (just around the time of a quick plummet in temperature here in the UK) Benny was regularly eating a box of medium locusts a week (about 10 or so on average, I'd say), about 5 medium brown crickets, and a small bowl of veg maybe one or two days a week. He's been a fairly greedy lizard ever since we stopped feeding him by hand (his brother used to get to all the food first so he just wouldn't chase it).

Around the time of the cold spell, though, he stopped eating altogether. Just suddenly stopped. I took all but 3 locusts out of his tank to more easily and by the time I got him to the vet he hadn't eaten in 9 days.

The vet isn't an expert in reptiles, but they couldn't spot anything wrong with him. No discolouration in his mouth or of his skin that I've noticed. Just noticeably thin around the waist and tail and despite his behaviour at the vet I think he's been slower than usual. The vet thought he might just be getting old, but with no obvious signs of any immediate issues, she didn't want to medicate him at all.

Troll that he is he proceeded to eat 8 locusts one after the other once within 2 hours of seeing the vet, with no medication or anything like that. Just trolled me.

His eating has gone down, however, over the past few months. I'd say he now eats maybe 3 to 4 locusts a week and he won't touch any veg left in his tank. At the moment I'm spending maybe a couple of minutes each day after I get back from work trying to hand feed him again (locusts), just in case, but I don't want to force feed him. He's still drinking, but I think that's more about dropping water on his snout more than him actively seeking out water.

He's still thinner than he used to be, which is understandable given his lack of eating I suppose, and his tank tends to sit at about 32C.

If it's brumation, this is far beyond anything he's been through before. He's gotten slower over winter, but I've never seen him eat this little. So I'm honestly I'm wondering if this is normal for a Bearded Dragon of his age, or if this is literally him slowing down as he's getting older.



Thanks for any help in advance,

A fairly worried, but probably overly anxious owner.

Hi there, they sure can cause us concern with the brumation versus something else at this time of year ! It may be a combination, him getting older as well as going in to a long but not complete brumation. Have you weighed him to know how much weight he lost or just going by visual ? Can you post a few pics of Benny including a body shot from above ? Here's how :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use XIMG to attach pics.

AHBD":2h4wk1gb said:

Hi there, they sure can cause us concern with the brumation versus something else at this time of year ! It may be a combination, him getting older as well as going in to a long but not complete brumation. Have you weighed him to know how much weight he lost or just going by visual ? Can you post a few pics of Benny including a body shot from above ? Here's how :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use XIMG to attach pics.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. He was weighed at the vets, but unfortunately I've forgotten what the measurement was (I could pop in tomorrow, I assume, to check if they kept his weight on record). He currently weighs 304g (10.8oz), and is 48cm/18.9in long (22cm/8.6in excluding his tail) which, going by a number of threads, is more on the lighter ends of things, it seems.

The weight loss is mostly based on observation, with his hips seeming much more pronounced than they used to be, with his tail being thinner as well.

And since you asked for photos, I thought I'd take a few today and then mine through Facebook for a few that might make for a good comparison:



Top view, trying to get as much of him in as possible. Sorry for using my bed as a place to lie him down, but I thought it would make for a better contrast:



And a few more taken today:

(lower angle)

(close up of his front)

(close up of his hips)

(taken yesterday)



And then for contrast, photos taken over the last year:

1 month ago (he sleeps in the weirdest positions sometimes):



2 taken 6 months ago:

...and:

(just as a reference, he doesn't have any contact with the snake in that photo, my 2.5-year-old royal python, Svafnir. That was mostly a "hey look at this" photo for a friend. And excuse the untidy floor, lol)



1 photo taken 10 months ago:



And, finally, 1 photo taken 1 year ago:



As you might be able to see in comparison to older photos, he's noticeably thinner, but I don't think there's any signs of discolouration anywhere on his body or any signs of injury.



As a quick update as well, I managed to get him to eat three medium locusts fairly soon after submitting my first post, and I've gotten him to drink a couple of times as well.

Since it will probably come up as well, he is pooing regularly. They're not too solid and not too runny, just containing less material which makes sense, I suppose, given that he's eating less (we thought there might have been a problem with him when we first got him, but he really only seems to go once a month or so).

Aw, look at sleepy Benny. I can say right off that he has become an unhealthy weight, so something is going on there. It's good that he ate some and drank....how do you hydrate him ? Try water via syringe/dropper right on his snout since he looks dehydrated and that can affect the kidneys more quickly in an older dragon. If he doesn't eat or drink much, ask the vet for some Oxbow Critical Care supplement. You can add water to it for extra hydration. If you can't get any, try some baby food squash, green bean and chicken with no added flavors or salt. It's important to see about his hydration. Hopefully nothing too serious is going on but he is not too well right now. You might also put the other dragon in a different tank, since there is a big chance of aggression toward a weaker animal and Benny can't afford that. Hopefuly you can get him back to feeling better !

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

Aw, look at sleepy Benny.

Click to expand...

Haha, so many of my friends say that when they see photos of him now (I worry, I share)

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

I can say right off that he has become an unhealthy weight, so something is going on there. It's good that he ate some and drank....how do you hydrate him ? Try water via syringe/dropper right on his snout since he looks dehydrated and that can affect the kidneys more quickly in an older dragon.

Click to expand...

That's exactly how I hydrate him at the moment, so that was awesome to hear. I mean, obviously not the kidney bit, but confirmation that I'm doing something right is never a bad thing.

Once he's had a drink he does seem to become more active, seeking out more water. I'm assuming that, to an extent, that's somewhat of a good thing. A sign that he knows what's wrong, sort of thing?

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

If he doesn't eat or drink much, ask the vet for some Oxbow Critical Care supplement. You can add water to it for extra hydration. If you can't get any, try some baby food squash, green bean and chicken with no added flavors or salt. It's important to see about his hydration.

Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the suggestion there. I might take him to the vet at some point soon, just as sort of a check-up for him, so I'll have a word with them about it.

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

Hopefully nothing too serious is going on but he is not too well right now.

Click to expand...

I'm hoping you're right and that, at its core, it's predominantly a hydration issue. Obviously the insane optimist in me is like "easy fix", but I know it could take a fair while of me monitoring his water intake and keeping an eye on his eating. So nothing complicated, but maybe not short-term.

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

You might also put the other dragon in a different tank, since there is a big chance of aggression toward a weaker animal and Benny can't afford that.

Click to expand...

Possible miscommunication there. Benny's been in his tank alone for the last 8 years at least. Having adopted him to get him away from his bully of a brother, no other animal is going in his tank ever.

AHBD":3fk1n18l said:

Hopefuly you can get him back to feeling better !

Click to expand...

I hope so too. I used to own 3 Berber Skinks as well (kept in their own tank), who gradually, (thankfully) due to old age, have died over the years, with the last one dying in February 2016. Benny's sort of "the last lizard left" so I think I'm just getting overly concerned about him.

Ah, O.k...good that you hydrate him that way, I'm sorry that I forgot or missed that in your original post. My mind doesn't retain too much info from many sentences at once it seems. :lol

AHBD":i7gj7dq0 said:

Ah, O.k...good that you hydrate him that way, I'm sorry that I forgot or missed that in your original post. My mind doesn't retain too much info from many sentences at once it seems. :lol

Click to expand...

Yeah, I may have gone a bit overboard with the amount of information I put in one post But one of those "more is better" situations, I guess.

So, for the moment, keep trying to hydrate him with a syringe, hand-feed him and speak to the vet again, and then see how he gets on?

Thought I'd post a quick update, even though it's only been just over a week.

Benny has been drinking from the syringe, and occasionally on his own afterwards. I'm still mostly feeding him by hand, but he does seem to be eating on his own as well, but I've been at work when that's happened (mostly a case of "oo, no more locusts in his tank").

And now for the obligatory photos






He was much more active when I tried to take these. He almost wandered of while I was trying to take them.

EDIT: And a couple of hours later in his tank just to show he's not permanently in a state of flumph:



Obviously still a little concerned, but I was wondering if anyone might see any physical improvement that isn't just wishful thinking on my part.

Just wanted to post another quick update. His Holiness' weight, as of about an hour ago, is 374g. Much better than the 304g he weighed back in January.

His eating habits have massively improved and, though I'm still feeding him by hand, he'll happily go through a box of locusts, a fair number of crickets, some meal worms and some veg, each week, which is what he was eating before winter hit him hard.

He's no longer dehydrated, going by his droppings, which are now a much better consistency than they were, and appearing much more regularly in his tank

Thanks to AHBD for the advice which was hugely helpful, and I'm hoping that his recovery continues (I'm sort of planning for this happening next winter as well, so I can keep a closer eye on him and respond more quickly once it rolls around).