when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

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when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:41 pm

I just recommissioned Rex's old 100L rearing tub, so Toothless and Peppa are now in separate 100L rearing tubs , they are 6 weeks old according to the breeder.

Have the tubs set up as mirror images of each other near as possible.

Is 6 weeks old too young to separate ?

.... Peppa has been eating the lions share of the crickets as far as I can tell , hence my handing each 4-5 small crickets each the last couple of days to :
-- 1) bond with them ,
--2) to ensure Toothless at least gets some insects before Peppa pigs out.

I think Toothless will be less stressed by his more voracious and larger sister now.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby Esther19 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:47 pm

Dragons are solitary creatures in the wild. It would be fine to separate them now. Your male will likely eat more. There are few cases of successful dragon cohabitation, and those are with females only.
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:56 pm

yes , I am aware of that, just wondering if such early separation of siblings who are so young and had been reared together since hatching might stress them .

I know that eastern water dragon hatchlings tend to stay in groups until they reach subadult and they then go their own ways, do beardie hatchlings behave similarly in the wild ?

I can't recall ever seeing a group of wild beardie hatchlings hanging out together, but then I was not specifically looking to see if this happened at the time. Might be a safety in numbers strategy.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby AHBD » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:06 am

Best to separate right from the start. I raised many, many babies from the egg and they have to be housed together in groups simply because you can't really have 25-50 different rearing tubs. But there can always be one that decides to nip/bite or stress other babies. Sometimes there is no actual aggression toward a sibling, but a bolder baby will grab up food while a more timid, hesitant baby lags behind. The aggressor/dominant one can be a female when they're babies and even in mature dragons, the gender doesn't matter.

There may be a slight period of relocation stress again once they are put in new tanks but they should do fine. :)
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:48 am

Peppa spent a lot of time staring at Toothless this afternoon, who was happily basking at the prime basking spot and ignoring her. She eventually gave up and I saw her snap up at least 2 crickets who blundered too close to her (disappeared them in a flash !).

I was expecting her to be a bit stressed by being put into a separate tub , Toothless stayed put in the tub they were sharing. But I think she's settled in OK so far.

Only change I'll make is to get hold of a sheet of cardboard and tape it to one of the adjacent faces of the tubs so neither can see each other (did this for Rex and Puff too when they were little because they can still stress each other if they can see each other).
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:54 am

Worked a treat - for Toothless , he's been running about with a very big belly on him and is very happy with the new arrangement and has become much more outgoing since his sister was moved to her own rearing tub.

Peppa has not been so happy , combination of relocation stress and the poor little girl is shedding so feeling pretty moody and off and itchy (been scratching and rubbing on everything in sight).

Growth this week :
Peppa not so good , only up 2.1g to 18.7g
Toothless has thrived ! up 3.2g to 14.6g.

(Puff and Rex were 11g at the same age , so Toothless is still doing better than they were at the same age.)

:)

I expect Peppa will be back on to eating us out of house and home in a few days once her shedding is over and she settles in to the new arrangement.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:12 pm

Peppa is still off her live food, only ate 3 MS crickets and 3mealworm beetles yesterday. She is still eating plenty of grated carrot and cut up buk choi. Been 2 days she's refused to handfeed from me. Still shedding here and there.
I'm sure this is only a temporary setback for her and she'll be back to being a bottomless food pit soon.

Toothless polished off 7 MS crickets (3 by hand) and 5 mealworm beetles yesterday .... he's really enjoying not having to share with his sister.

Both are pooing daily.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby AHBD » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:18 pm

Yes, I think it's just a bit of relocation stress since she was moved, as well as a little grumpiness from her shedding. Her appetite will probably pick up soon. :)
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:06 am

I think toothless has decided he likes me... last night and tonight after his lights when out, he was standing up In the corner of his tub closest to me and looking at me while scratching away with his little front claws to make a sound and get my attention.
I ignored him other than talking to him , which seemed to the job last night and he promptly went to bed.
Tonight he refused to take no for an answer and I gave in and got him out for a little quality dad time, promptly snuggled into my open cupped hand and looked around for a while then soon with a little gentle petting on the head & under the chin (he really likes that) , he closed his eyes and went really floppy and relaxed..... :) ..... a success !

They really know how to manipulate their human's and it doesn't take them long to figure us out.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby CooperDragon » Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:20 am

We're pretty simple critters to figure out ;-). He owns you now =)
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:34 pm

CooperDragon wrote:We're pretty simple critters to figure out ;-). He owns you now =)


There's no denying that ... LOL , and they are a lot smarter than most people who never spend time living with them can ever imagine.

Peppa's apetite is back : polished off a stack of buk choi and grated carrot + 9 small crickets + 3 med-sml crickets + a mealworm beetle since yesterday. Tried handfeeding her but she stubbornly refused (too full ??? - not hungry enough), but promptly chased down and slammed a few crickets when she was put back into her tub
Toothless polished off 12 med-sml crickets and 4 small crickets + a stack of buk choi and grated carrot in the same period. He seems to like being handfed too (too 4 med-sml crickets off me this morning :) ).
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:54 pm

As a result of her shedding making her moody and grumpy, and my separating the pair, I think Peppa has the poops with me for separating her from Toothless, she still refuses to hand feed from me, and when I come to take her out she isn't keen on my picking her up.
My wife on the other hand, she lets her pat her and pick her up no dramas ..... Guess I'll just have to turn on a charm offensive and spend a bit more time to win her over, or she'll come round once the shedding is done and when she's adjusted completely to being housed separately.

Peppa ate 9 med-small crickets + some carrot and buk choy greens yesterday.
Toothless ate 14 med-small crickets (including 4 handfed) + some carrot and buk choi greens , he's really enjoying being handfed and handled and having his own digs.

Is very entertaining watching Toothless and Peppa when they are stalking a cricket.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:21 am

Toothless is now shedding too .... now I have two moody grumpy hatchlings .... he looks pretty daggy right now with bits old skin hanging off him here and there.

Doesn't seem to reduced his appetite.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:15 am

Toothless loved his medium silkworms !

Peppa was interested but not so sure if they were food.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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Re: when is too young to separate siblings M & F ?

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:54 am

Peppa and Toothless both made their 2 medium sized (1.5" long) silkworms each disappear by brekky.

Rex loved her 6 large silkworms .....

So did George and Mildred , 6 large silkworms each today.

Only one who turned her nose up at her medium silkworm was Wriggles, she was interested but, not interested enough to eat it. Too full of mealworms perhaps. Only gave her a small meal today, she might be more interested in the silkworms tomorrow.
CBDs: Puff (M)(RIP 10Dec2015 @ 3.2 yrs old (aneurism)),Rex (F)(RIP 16Mar2017 @ 4.6 yrs old,Toothless (M)(sudden unexplained death RIP 26Nov2017) @ 2.1 yrs old.Peppa (F) (born 15Nov2015).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Lucky (M)(wild juvenile), cat attack rescue, fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles (F)(rescued injured),thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016). Fluffy (F) rescued 14Nov2017 about 4 yrs old . .
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