Thin and won't eat anything but superworms

DukedeYoung · Jun 14, 2012

Hey guys, so Zeus is around 7 months old and 17'' long. Lately I've been trying to give him super worms as I hear that crickets can carry parasites, and the super worms are cheaper. It's been almost a week now that I've offered him 15 super worms every other day and now he won't eat anything else. He's stopped eating his crickets and greens, and no matter what I do he refuses them. Now this worries me because I've been trying to hydrate him (baths every day also) but I've read that his greens are an important part of his diet to get him to be hydrated. His urates are yellowish in color and I had him a fecal done but they didn't detect any parasites.

He's looking skinny, which is really concerning me. He only poops every 2-5 days, so I upped the temperature (it was 100) in hopes that it'll help him digest faster. He also had pieces of super worm in his poop, so should I stop feeding him the super worms and just try to get him to eat other things instead? I'm scared that he'll lose too much weight.

Please help!

bayoupig5 · Jun 14, 2012

Lately I've been trying to give him super worms as I hear that crickets can carry parasites, and the super worms are cheaper. It's been almost a week now that I've offered him 15 super worms every other day and now he won't eat anything else.

Welcome to having a picky eater. My Emmalee (3.5 years) is like this, she never ate veggies, and now refuses to eat anything, but superworms. I also heard that crickets can carry parasites, but I think it is also a good idea to offer a varied diet. I trick Emmlaee into eating them by offering them to her in her outdoor viv. She seems to think that any bug offered outside has got to be better than inside. She will seriously eat crickets outside, but refuses to eat them in her viv or in the house, go figure. So maybe changing the scenery may also be helpful, in your dragons case. If you can locate Phoenix worms, I would try those as well, they are a great staple and my Emmalee loves them. Also try to see if you can find butter worms and wax worms, these are used as a treat most often, but have a high fat content and are great for bulking dragons up. With him being 17 inches now, you may also want to try smaller horn worms.

He's stopped eating his crickets and greens, and no matter what I do he refuses them. Now this worries me because I've been trying to hydrate him (baths every day also) but I've read that his greens are an important part of his diet to get him to be hydrated.

Because Emmalee has never eaten salad, I have had to resort to making slurries out of various veggies and fruit. You can do this by blending with a hand mixer or blender, you can also add bugs if you wish to get protein in there. You can also use organic baby food (baby food should contain ingredient and water only)for theslurry as well, chicken can be used short term for protein, and I have used squash, peas, carrots, apple, blueberry strawberry, etc. This can be administered by syringe. You place a drop on the tip of their nose and eventually they will start licking the food, at this point you just keep squeezing the syringe until it's gone

His urates are yellowish in color and I had him a fecal done but they didn't detect any parasites.

Sometimes yellow urate can indicate that there is too much calcium being administered. How many times are you sprinking the food with calcium and how often? Urates can also change color with various food, carrots, strawberries and squash have all been know to change the urate color in some dragons.

He's looking skinny, which is really concerning me. He only poops every 2-5 days, so I upped the temperature (it was 100) in hopes that it'll help him digest faster. He also had pieces of super worm in his poop, so should I stop feeding him the super worms and just try to get him to eat other things instead? I'm scared that he'll lose too much weight.

How much does he weight? My dragon has lots of trouble pooping, she used to go once every week or two until I started bathing her every second day for 20 min. Now she will go every 2nd or third day for now. You say you bath daily, how long are these baths?. Never the less, 2-5 days does not seem unusual. And I would not worry about hime not getting enough hydration. Raising the basking temps is a good idea, superworms can be hard to digest, so Emmalee's basking side is usually around 98-104F and she does not seem to have pieces of superworm in her poop.

I know you are scared of him losing too much weight, but you may want to reduce the number of supers you are feeding per day, and maybe splitting it over every day, giving 6-7 per day, this may also help with digestion. Keep offering other food, and live feeders in the meantime. Some dragons do get very spoiled, most of them eventually come around, unless you have an Emmalee.

LadyMeridius · Jun 14, 2012

Fluffy will only eat Supers as well. Ive offered everything I can think of and she snubs them

RockHound · Jun 14, 2012

Unfortunately, crickets most certainly CAN carry parasites. My Sierra got a few pinworms from a bad batch I got about a month ago (no big deal really - I keep things clean, and they will cycle out without reinfecting. Pinworms don't actually do anything to harm their host). I still feed crickets, but I switched suppliers. Now I gutload for 48 hours minimum. A bad batch of crickets will generally have large die-offs in that time, or be lethargic.

I've avoided supers because I've heard that beardies can get addicted to them and will start foregoing the rest of their diet. Crazy that it has happened to so many people just on here!

DukedeYoung · Jun 15, 2012

Welcome to having a picky eater. My Emmalee (3.5 years) is like this, she never ate veggies, and now refuses to eat anything, but superworms. I also heard that crickets can carry parasites, but I think it is also a good idea to offer a varied diet. I trick Emmlaee into eating them by offering them to her in her outdoor viv. She seems to think that any bug offered outside has got to be better than inside. She will seriously eat crickets outside, but refuses to eat them in her viv or in the house, go figure. So maybe changing the scenery may also be helpful, in your dragons case. If you can locate Phoenix worms, I would try those as well, they are a great staple and my Emmalee loves them. Also try to see if you can find butter worms and wax worms, these are used as a treat most often, but have a high fat content and are great for bulking dragons up. With him being 17 inches now, you may also want to try smaller horn worms.

Thanks! It does seem like Zeus has become a picky eater. I'll give the outside the vivarium thing a shot, seems like a good idea to me. I've been looking into breeding Phoenix and other various worms, I'd like to get him on a worm diet instead of a worm/cricket diet. (Plus he won't even eat the crickets! :lol: )

Because Emmalee has never eaten salad, I have had to resort to making slurries out of various veggies and fruit. You can do this by blending with a hand mixer or blender, you can also add bugs if you wish to get protein in there. You can also use organic baby food (baby food should contain ingredient and water only)for theslurry as well, chicken can be used short term for protein, and I have used squash, peas, carrots, apple, blueberry strawberry, etc. This can be administered by syringe. You place a drop on the tip of their nose and eventually they will start licking the food, at this point you just keep squeezing the syringe until it's gone

I do normally mix up Zeus's veggies with a food processor, so making a slurry won't be an issue. More solid advice, thank you!

Sometimes yellow urate can indicate that there is too much calcium being administered. How many times are you sprinking the food with calcium and how often? Urates can also change color with various food, carrots, strawberries and squash have all been know to change the urate color in some dragons.

I was originally putting calcium with his crickets once a day, 7 days a week. I've limited that to once a day five times a week however. How big of a pinch do you think I should put with Zeus's food? I do feed him squash frequently, so that could be why his urate has yellow in it.

How much does he weight? My dragon has lots of trouble pooping, she used to go once every week or two until I started bathing her every second day for 20 min. Now she will go every 2nd or third day for now. You say you bath daily, how long are these baths?. Never the less, 2-5 days does not seem unusual. And I would not worry about hime not getting enough hydration. Raising the basking temps is a good idea, superworms can be hard to digest, so Emmalee's basking side is usually around 98-104F and she does not seem to have pieces of superworm in her poop.

I'm not sure how much he weighs, I've never weighed him before. I'm glad that his pooping isn't something to be concerned about. I've cut back on his bathing to every other day because I also don't want to give him a respiratory infection, and normally I bathe him for 10-20 minutes, sometimes 25 if it seems like he's enjoying the soak. (Most of the times he doesn't, haha.)

I know you are scared of him losing too much weight, but you may want to reduce the number of supers you are feeding per day, and maybe splitting it over every day, giving 6-7 per day, this may also help with digestion. Keep offering other food, and live feeders in the meantime. Some dragons do get very spoiled, most of them eventually come around, unless you have an Emmalee.

Thanks, I'll do that. I am still offering him the crickets because I currently don't have another staple bug other than the super worms to give him. Zeus sounds like he's very similar to Emmalee. :lol:

Now something else that I've noticed just tonight is that Zeus has a slight twitch to the longest finger on his right arm. I've read that too much calcium can give dragons MBD, which is troubling.

DukedeYoung · Jun 15, 2012

RockHound":2i26cdbp said:
Unfortunately, crickets most certainly CAN carry parasites. My Sierra got a few pinworms from a bad batch I got about a month ago (no big deal really - I keep things clean, and they will cycle out without reinfecting. Pinworms don't actually do anything to harm their host). I still feed crickets, but I switched suppliers. Now I gutload for 48 hours minimum. A bad batch of crickets will generally have large die-offs in that time, or be lethargic.

I've avoided supers because I've heard that beardies can get addicted to them and will start foregoing the rest of their diet. Crazy that it has happened to so many people just on here!

Yeah, I've been worried that Zeus would get parasites from a batch of crickets. I want to avoid that as best as I can (and any other diseases/illnesses he could get.)

It is crazy how addicted bearded dragons can get to super worms! I swear Zeus looks literally addicted because if I don't feed him super worms, he paces at his glass while staring at me making the most noise he can. He doesn't stop until he gets them. :lol:

bayoupig5 · Jun 16, 2012

Hi, How is Zeus doing, is he still twitching?

I think calcium 5 times per week with the multi 2 times per week would be sufficient. That is what I have been doing with Emmalee for a while. Due to other issues she was at the vet yesterday, and he said she was the healtiest dragon he has seen in his practice :blob8:

. So I don't think you can go wrong there.

These are my calcium fine tuning tips. Too much or to little vitamins can cause all sorts of issues, so far what I have been doing for Emmy has been good. Keep in mind you will have to adjust for your own dragons needs, and you need to keep a close eye on what is going on to make the adjustments. So here we go: if I have noticed that Emmy's urates were yellow, and I was sure it was not related to diet, I have cut out the calcium for a couple days, and then resumed a normal schedule (I did not add multi vit instead, I just left the food un-dusted). I have only had to do this once, but it worked. Too much calcium can also cause constipation, so if you notice your dragon is straining to go, and it's not normal for your dragon to do so, you may be giving him too much calcium.

Emmy gets calcium five times per week, once a day. However, as an adult she is only fed once a day, and that is only if she is basking. If she is not basking that day, I do not feed her, as she is usually not interested in eating, On those days I have not given her vits at all. Your dragon is only 7 moths old though, so daily feeding should still be done. If Emmalee has gone long term without food, I have added a very small pinch, a few grains of vit powder to a 3 ml syringe of water, and have offered this to her. With food, I will either pinch in a small amount of vit to the slurry or dust the feeders. I do not do both. It's one or the other. I have also not dusted all the worms if she is eating more than 5, I'll dust the first 5, but not the next 4. I do not want to over do it as well, as she has had constant constipation issues since adult hood However, again your dragon is still a little young, so you should adjust according to your dragons needs, at least until he is a year old. As far as how much, bugs should be lightly coated, not drenched in calcium powder. Don't laugh, but I shake the bugs in vits and then blow each one off before I give them to her. When feeding salad or slurry a small pinch between your fingers should be enough. Keep feeding the squash, it a great food for them, and is a great staple to help with fecal motility.

Emmalee had one fecal when I first got her that had pinworms and 2 unidentifiable protozoa in it. Since then (three fecals later), her poop is to quote the vet "the cleanest bearded dragon poop he has ever seen". So although some feeders do contain worms, I think that if your dragon is healthy, they can keep the counts ingested in check. Emmalee has has several crickets, since her first fecal three years ago, and it is still clear. Mind you crickets are my least favorite bug, but sometimes they are the only other form of variety left to feed, especially in the winter (in Canada). I know all about limited availability, and buy most other bugs online, the phoenix and butters all came from online, waxies have only been available once and a while in stores, but can also be found online. So you may want to look into that.

Did you have a fecal done recently?

I would also invest in a scale for your dragon. I use a digital food scale, and it is great for knowing where your dragon stands at all times. I know how much Emmy should weight during brumation and during her waking time, and can adjust what I feed her and how much all because of that scale. They are failry inexpensive and you can buy them almost anywhere. I have even seen them at Wal Mart. Weight loss can also give you an indication that something is wrong, earlier than most outward symtoms can. So having a scale is a great tool.

Emmalee hates her bath too, but due to recent events has had to have increased baths every second day, and I leave her for 20 minutes, unless she's pooped in it. Then I will cut it off ealry, cause if I don't I get a very black beard, and of all things she opens mouth showing me all of her mean teeth, and when really pissed has even hissed at me for several minutes :shock: . But you know what, that's just too bad cause I know what is best for her :lol:

Let me know how things are going.

11ofclubs · Jun 17, 2012

One of my dragons did the same thing. Super worms only. I just take her out in the sun every day and give her a bath every other day. Your dragon has similar symptoms to mine and I would recommend direct sunlight. She is skinny and after a couple of days in the sun she is eating wax worms. Also I would try wax worms because they are high in fat and will help get your dragons weight back. If your dragon is really underweight feed 5-6 wax worms a day maximum. When your dragon starts to gain more weight start to reduce the amount of wax worms. I have yet to try it but, I also hear that horn worms are irresistible to dragons and that may be a good place to start to get your dragon eating a varied diet. Also if you do not or did not have a uvb light for some time and the cage was to cool, (it seems as though you do have tems under control now though), it may be Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). I'm going out on a limb and saying that and may get yelled at because that is not my specialty but, we did not have a uvb for her up until a couple of weeks ago and the cage was to cool. We think that she may have a mild case of mbd but, she is getting better and starting to eat

hope this helps Elliot.

DukedeYoung · Jun 17, 2012

bayoupig5":9fnbxqnj said:
Hi, How is Zeus doing, is he still twitching?

He doesn't seem to be twitching anymore, it was just a finger or two of light twitches. I'm going to keep a close eye on him.

I think calcium 5 times per week with the multi 2 times per week would be sufficient. That is what I have been doing with Emmalee for a while. Due to other issues she was at the vet yesterday, and he said she was the healtiest dragon he has seen in his practice . So I don't think you can go wrong there.

These are my calcium fine tuning tips. Too much or to little vitamins can cause all sorts of issues, so far what I have been doing for Emmy has been good. Keep in mind you will have to adjust for your own dragons needs, and you need to keep a close eye on what is going on to make the adjustments. So here we go: if I have noticed that Emmy's urates were yellow, and I was sure it was not related to diet, I have cut out the calcium for a couple days, and then resumed a normal schedule (I did not add multi vit instead, I just left the food un-dusted). I have only had to do this once, but it worked. Too much calcium can also cause constipation, so if you notice your dragon is straining to go, and it's not normal for your dragon to do so, you may be giving him too much calcium.

Sounds like you're taking awesome care of Emmalee! Thank you for the tips, calcium problems are something that I've become very familiar with. I've cut back on the calcium and it seems like Zeus's poop is better. It's half white and half yellow compared to the almost full yellow that his previous poop was. I don't currently give Zeus a multivitamin because I thought the calcium-d3 was all that the beardies need?

Emmy gets calcium five times per week, once a day. However, as an adult she is only fed once a day, and that is only if she is basking. If she is not basking that day, I do not feed her, as she is usually not interested in eating, On those days I have not given her vits at all. Your dragon is only 7 moths old though, so daily feeding should still be done. If Emmalee has gone long term without food, I have added a very small pinch, a few grains of vit powder to a 3 ml syringe of water, and have offered this to her. With food, I will either pinch in a small amount of vit to the slurry or dust the feeders. I do not do both. It's one or the other. I have also not dusted all the worms if she is eating more than 5, I'll dust the first 5, but not the next 4. I do not want to over do it as well, as she has had constant constipation issues since adult hood However, again your dragon is still a little young, so you should adjust according to your dragons needs, at least until he is a year old. As far as how much, bugs should be lightly coated, not drenched in calcium powder. Don't laugh, but I shake the bugs in vits and then blow each one off before I give them to her. When feeding salad or slurry a small pinch between your fingers should be enough. Keep feeding the squash, it a great food for them, and is a great staple to help with fecal motility.

Yes, I do feed him daily and keep him provided with fresh veggies (even though he doesn't eat them ) I see... For now I've been dusting Zeus's worms (7 when he gets his morning meal I don't dust them, but I do dust the other 7 for his nightly meal) I've been blowing on the worms and it gets off a lot of the excess calcium, so thanks for that! It's a great idea. =) Tried to give Zeus his veggies by putting it on his snout, be he either lets it sit there or shakes his head furiously trying to get it off. He does the same thing with water as well. He's so stubborn!

Emmalee had one fecal when I first got her that had pinworms and 2 unidentifiable protozoa in it. Since then (three fecals later), her poop is to quote the vet "the cleanest bearded dragon poop he has ever seen". So although some feeders do contain worms, I think that if your dragon is healthy, they can keep the counts ingested in check. Emmalee has has several crickets, since her first fecal three years ago, and it is still clear. Mind you crickets are my least favorite bug, but sometimes they are the only other form of variety left to feed, especially in the winter (in Canada). I know all about limited availability, and buy most other bugs online, the phoenix and butters all came from online, waxies have only been available once and a while in stores, but can also be found online. So you may want to look into that.

"The cleanest poop" is funny to hear, haha. Zeus seems to be healthy, and I recently got him a fecal done and no parasites were found in his poop. I'm definitely buying all of his bugs online, as the local stores seem to overprice the feeders.

Did you have a fecal done recently?

Yes I did! Everything was fine, although there was a lot of bacteria in his poop but that could be from me putting it in the fridge overnight. I heard that keeps to poop "fresh." :lol:

I would also invest in a scale for your dragon. I use a digital food scale, and it is great for knowing where your dragon stands at all times. I know how much Emmy should weight during brumation and during her waking time, and can adjust what I feed her and how much all because of that scale. They are failry inexpensive and you can buy them almost anywhere. I have even seen them at Wal Mart. Weight loss can also give you an indication that something is wrong, earlier than most outward symtoms can. So having a scale is a great tool.

I do have a scale, but it's solely for food and it's not digital. Would that work? I would like to know his weight as it does seem like something important to know. I'll check at Walmart and get him another scale if mine doesn't work!

Emmalee hates her bath too, but due to recent events has had to have increased baths every second day, and I leave her for 20 minutes, unless she's pooped in it. Then I will cut it off ealry, cause if I don't I get a very black beard, and of all things she opens mouth showing me all of her mean teeth, and when really pissed has even hissed at me for several minutes :shock: . But you know what, that's just too bad cause I know what is best for her :lol:

Wow! Zeus hasn't hissed or shown me his teeth yet, he just sits there staring me down. :lol: Oh I do know, but they seem to rather think they know best. :wink:

DukedeYoung · Jun 17, 2012

11ofclubs":1auhzw44 said:
One of my dragons did the same thing. Super worms only. I just take her out in the sun every day and give her a bath every other day. Your dragon has similar symptoms to mine and I would recommend direct sunlight. She is skinny and after a couple of days in the sun she is eating wax worms. Also I would try wax worms because they are high in fat and will help get your dragons weight back. If your dragon is really underweight feed 5-6 wax worms a day maximum. When your dragon starts to gain more weight start to reduce the amount of wax worms. I have yet to try it but, I also hear that horn worms are irresistible to dragons and that may be a good place to start to get your dragon eating a varied diet. Also if you do not or did not have a uvb light for some time and the cage was to cool, (it seems as though you do have tems under control now though), it may be Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). I'm going out on a limb and saying that and may get yelled at because that is not my specialty but, we did not have a uvb for her up until a couple of weeks ago and the cage was to cool. We think that she may have a mild case of mbd but, she is getting better and starting to eat hope this helps Elliot.

Yeah, I thought taking him into the sunlight might be good for him. A little fresh air is always good too! I'll do that, thank you. I'm also looking into ordering wax worms online. How many days do you think that it would take to get Zeus to be nice and fat again? Horn worms sound great but also look to be very expensive! I'm looking into breeding them to have a nice supply. I do have a UVB and always have had one on him. I was worried it's MBD, but the twitching is very mild and I haven't seen any again. I hope your beardie continues to get better! How old is she?

11ofclubs · Jun 17, 2012

I'm not quite sure how long it would take to get fat again maybe someone more experienced will jump in. With the wax worms mine has started to fatten up after only a couple of days but, it is a small amount gained back. My girl is about nine months and 12 1/2 inches. She is starting the recovery

sorry i cant answer your question about how long it will take. Elliot.

bayoupig5 · Jun 17, 2012

A regular kitchen scale would work as well, but they have to be quite still, so it will work, but digital is more accurate. I would suggest adding the Multi Vitamin as well, as it is widely suggested for beardies, and helps with their overall health level. I have used this since Emmy was a baby.

Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamin
Vitamin A requirement from Beta Carotene

Rep-Cal's HERPTIVITE is a superior multi-vitamin, multimineral and amino acid food supplement developed from the latest findings in reptile and amphibian nutritional research. Its formulation contains all natural source ingredients with a base of "sea vegetation." Unlike other companies which use non-nutritional "bases," Rep-Cal's "sea vegetation" base is rich in essential trace elements and minerals. Furthermore, HERPTIVITE contains precise levels of vitamins and minerals combined in perfect balance to ensure correct utilization of protein and other essential nutrients for growth, reproduction, maintenance and many aspects of your reptile's bodily functions. HERPTIVITE is the first reptile vitamin without Vitamin A. Instead we use Beta Carotene which is an anti-oxidant that is converted into Vitamin A in a regulated way, so there is no threat of Vitamin A toxicity. Make Rep-Cal's HERPTIVITE the dietary supplement of choice for your reptiles.

LadyMeridius · Jun 18, 2012

Princess Fluffy has deemed waxworms worthy and chowed down about 20 (she even ate the dead ones). She looked like she wanted some supers afterward, but she was full. Looks like Ill be buying more waxworms tomorrow

11ofclubs · Jun 18, 2012

Be careful, wax worms are very high in fat. Even for an underweight dragon six is quite enough for one day. Just monitor and limit the feeding to only a few maybe three or four a day for a average weight dragon. They should be a treat unless your dragon is underweight. Too many will cause obesity and problems. You could feed wax worms and then something els. Just limit the wax worms. Try phoenix worms and horn worms. You can order those online. Hope that helps. Elliot.

Thin and won't eat anything but superworms

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