Stacking behavior

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LeahLady79

New member
Hi. I have 2 bearded dragons. Spartacus is 11" and Sangria is 8". I dont know their sexes bec they are too little to tell yet. I currently keep them together in a 20gal tank and I've noticed that Sangria prefers to sit on Spartacus' back. They have plenty of space on two basking sites and Spartacus doesn't seem to mind. They seem to prefer to stay close to each other. I am wondering if this stacking behavior is a social behavior beyond a dominance thing. Will they stop once they get older or has anyone noticed that this behavior continues into adulthood?
 

Skipper7

Juvie Member
They should never be housed together!!! Stacking is a sign of dominance. One is depriving the other of heat and UV!! 20gallons is far to small for one beardie. They both need at least 40gal enclosures.

They may seem to get along, but that could change at any point. To be brutally honest, you may wind up with torn off limbs, crushed skulls, and a broken heart.

I don't know how else to put it. It's happened before to beardies that were "friends"
 

Gormagon

Extreme Poster
Yes, Skipper is right "they cannot be housed together!!! They are solitary creatures and, "VERY TERRITORIAL" !!! Then end result is sometimes very gruesome and, heart wrenching.
Example..... viewtopic.php?f=45&t=228673
I always post the link because the photos within this thread still break my heart!
 

Rankins

Gray-bearded Member
The posts of avoidable mistakes are really difficult for all of us. But I think a lot of bearded dragon owners probably separated their animals because of it...so even though tragic some good came from it.
But please do seperate so nothing bad happens.
 

LeahLady79

New member
Original Poster
I was afraid that I wasn't going to get an answer. Yes, I am aware that they will need to be separated and I have the proper vivs for them when it is needed. However it is the dead of winter and even though I keep my house at a comfortable 70 degrees when the temps drop outside I need two heat lamps to keep tla 20 gal viv warm enough. If I put babies in a 40 gal they will die.
I was asking about stacking behaviors because there is no need for the smaller one to climb on the larger one. The idea of dominance doesn't fit what I'm seeing, so I was asking if anyone else has observed anything similar.
 

Rankins

Gray-bearded Member
I keep my house at 55°F in the winter, I don't heat it unless it gets below that temp. A 160 watt bulb will keep a 55 gallon tank basking spot around 110°F...the cool side is heated with heat tape set at 85°F. I only use the heat tape in the winter.
You may not be seeing dominance behavior...but your seeing behavior that will eventually lead to serious injury.
Please seperate them.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
LeahLady79":3fstcv3i said:
Hi. I have 2 bearded dragons. Spartacus is 11" and Sangria is 8". I dont know their sexes bec they are too little to tell yet. I currently keep them together in a 20gal tank and I've noticed that Sangria prefers to sit on Spartacus' back. They have plenty of space on two basking sites and Spartacus doesn't seem to mind. They seem to prefer to stay close to each other. I am wondering if this stacking behavior is a social behavior beyond a dominance thing. Will they stop once they get older or has anyone noticed that this behavior continues into adulthood?

Dominance behaviour, separate the pair immediately before the dominance beardie attacks the submissive (smaller) dragon and potentially kills it.

Bearded dragons should NOT be housed together or allowed to meet each other unless it's to mate.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
LeahLady79":2wf9t5wb said:
I was afraid that I wasn't going to get an answer. Yes, I am aware that they will need to be separated and I have the proper vivs for them when it is needed. However it is the dead of winter and even though I keep my house at a comfortable 70 degrees when the temps drop outside I need two heat lamps to keep tla 20 gal viv warm enough. If I put babies in a 40 gal they will die. <<<< so set up a second 20gal rearing tank , and move the bigger beardie into it , my Peppa and Toothless are 14 months old and still in their 100L rearing tubs , I'm recovering from an illness and unable at this time to build the new 3 bay fullsized beardie apartment building (even though I've all the building materials on hand).

I was asking about stacking behaviors because there is no need for the smaller one to climb on the larger one. The idea of dominance doesn't fit what I'm seeing, <<<< sorry BUT this is typical of dominance behaviour in cohabiting beardies. so I was asking if anyone else has observed anything similar. I saw the same behaviours with Puff dominating Rex as juveniles ,then the biting starting about 6 months old and I separated the pair , and in Peppa over Toothless as hatchlings and I separated them at 6 weeks old.
 

Gormagon

Extreme Poster
Gormagon":gwbatv5g said:
Yes, Skipper is right "they cannot be housed together!!! They are solitary creatures and, "VERY TERRITORIAL" !!! Then end result is sometimes very gruesome and, heart wrenching.
Example..... viewtopic.php?f=45&t=228673
I always post the link because the photos within this thread still break my heart!

Did you open the link in this post? If not , do so and you will see what we are talking about. These are not cute behaviors.
 

Taterbug

BD.org Addict
LeahLady79":2zspkh3c said:
I was asking about stacking behaviors because there is no need for the smaller one to climb on the larger one. The idea of dominance doesn't fit what I'm seeing, so I was asking if anyone else has observed anything similar.

Stacking in reptiles isn't always directly an aggressive dominance behavior, it can also be a subtle form of resource completion. If the same dragon wins all the time then it's dominating.

Animal dominance body language can be very subtle. Simple postures, eye contact and even color can be enough for one lizard to pretty much be yelling at the other. Dragons and many other lizards will establish hierarchies which can get to be stressful to the subordinate animals if they do not have proper resources. You may not think there is a need for the one to sit on the other, but perhaps that perch is better? Perhaps the top lizard just wants to remind the bottom lizard who is boss?

At the end of the day top lizard is routinely taking the best perch, and low key causeing the other lizard a small deprivation as well as potential stress. Long term this is unhealthy for the subordinate lizard.

Sounds like you need to work on your equipment abut as well - what sort of lamps and thermometer are you using? Two lamps in a 20g in a 70F room sounds like it should be plenty.
 

Rankins

Gray-bearded Member
Tater stated my thoughts in a much better way than I did. Dominance isn't always intended as domination, theft of resources is an indirect form of dominance. Either way, seperate them or your potential for a dragon (or both) to be injured is pretty good.
 

LeahLady79

New member
Original Poster
So, I learned something interesting regarding stacking behavior that I thought I'd share in case anyone has observed what I have....
While it is commonly assumed that the dominant will lay on top of others for resources, in actuality a dominant beardie will allow a submissive beardie to lay on them. As I have observed with my two, Sangria (the smaller of the two) rides Spartacus like a horse, licks him and runs over him constantly. To the extent that I assumed that she was the dominant. He just lets her do whatever she wants. Considering that Spartacus spent the first 4 mos of his life in a pet store with a viv full of babies, I think he's just used to being mistaken for a jungle gym.
 
89905-830856152.jpg


This is the kind of stacking behavior I saw in petco just yesterday....so that definitely doesn't look like the little one is having a good time.

I understand how badly you want your two to be friends...but everyone here has really good intentions. They wouldn't insist that you separate them, if it wasn't for the best. It's just not worth the risk of the lizards deciding to "test" who's really dominant and biting it out, and getting infections and whatnot.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
GlassesTho":2g5g09iu said:
89905-830856152.jpg


This is the kind of stacking behavior I saw in petco just yesterday....so that definitely doesn't look like the little one is having a good time.

I understand how badly you want your two to be friends...but everyone here has really good intentions. They wouldn't insist that you separate them, if it wasn't for the best. It's just not worth the risk of the lizards deciding to "test" who's really dominant and biting it out, and getting infections and whatnot.

I can see other things wrong there too :
including they are on calcisand !!
the useless dial thermometer
.... based on these alone I'd not take any advice they gave as it will be bad advice.
 
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