Lethargic or just lazy?

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Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Wed May 05, 2021 8:05 am

Hi,
My 9-11 month dragon doesn't move much at all most of the time. I'm trying to figure out if this is typical dragon behavior or if she's actually lethargic. Her behavior changed a lot over the last month or two, which I was attributong to her just become an adult given her age. She moves around much less, eats much less, and seems to avoid basking less and less to the point where she moves for about an hour if she eats or poops then finds a spot afterwards and doesn't walk around until the next day. She went to bed last night under a hammock where the probe reading is 79° around 7pm, and now it's 12pm the next day and she hasn't moved. She does this behavior daily most of the time. She will get up to poop and then usually glass surf/walk all around for an hour before finding a spot to lay, where she would stay until the next day if I don't move her. Is it normal to lay around that much? A few days ago she was digging around and glass surfing but that behavior stopped yesterday. Other than that it's sitting in one spot for 22 hours a day and moving just to poop/eat. The eating has gone down to maybe one roach or superworm a day. Her behavior just seemed to change so much in the last month or so. I had set a vet appointment to check for parasites, but had to reschedule because she didn't poop the day before or of her appointment. So the next one is Friday. Could switching from carpet to tile have caused this? Seems like she began eating less when we made the change to ceramic tile. Temps taken on the tile are below.

18x18x36
22" reptisun t5 10.0 HO internally mounted
100W basking bulb
Temps basking spots probe on fleece 103-107° (fluctuates)
Warm side probe on tile 100° under basking bulb
Warm side Under hide/hammock probe on tile 79°
Under hide cool side 70°
Night is about 65ish with probe on tile where she sleeps.

She spends a lot of time under the hammock on the warm side .I noticed that sometimes her belly feels cold because of the tile I'm assuming... So I tried putting a 150w basking bulb and it bround temps up about 5-8° uniformly accross tank and then she climbed to a high place on the opposite side of tank and just sat there all day. I went back and put the 100w in. So messing with temps doesn't seem to change her behavior.

I'm posting in here a lot but this is my first dragon and transitioning from a juvenile to adult is just a big change behaviorally and I guess I'm not used to it. Hopefully one day I'll be a confident dragon owner lol
[Click image to enlarge]

This is how she will be almost all day.
Last edited by Evergrowingfamily on Wed May 05, 2021 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Wed May 05, 2021 8:39 am

what is the distance from the UVB to the decor piece? She should be basking for about 4 hrs per day - and yes its normal for them to be lazy but they are usually doing it under the basking lights and they can go take naps in their hides as well -- but to be under the hammock most of the day is not a normal thing ---its like she is hiding from the UVB -- that you dont want -
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Wed May 05, 2021 8:55 am

KarrieRee wrote:what is the distance from the UVB to the decor piece? She should be basking for about 4 hrs per day - and yes its normal for them to be lazy but they are usually doing it under the basking lights and they can go take naps in their hides as well -- but to be under the hammock most of the day is not a normal thing ---its like she is hiding from the UVB -- that you dont want -


I just measured and the uvb bulb itself is about 14.5" from the tile floor. The basking spot is about 12" to 14" depending on how far towards the front of the tank on her hammock.
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Wed May 05, 2021 8:58 am

So if she sits on the basking decor how far is she from it? You dont want her any closer than 12" from her decor piece
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am

I see. On the decor she's probably 10-12", the furthest being all the way towards the front of the glass (I have bulb mounted in rear of tank). So If I take the hammock down and allow her to be at 14" from it just right on the tile if the basking temp is 100° is that sufficient? In other words she would not climb to bask then, just lay on the floor under the bulbs?
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Wed May 05, 2021 10:06 am

yes-- try that and see if her behavior changes
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 8:54 am

KarrieRee wrote:yes-- try that and see if her behavior changes


I removed the hammock she was hiding under on the warm side and she did stay over there most of the day yesterday just chilling out. I thought maybe the issue was solved. But at around 9pm yesterday she went into her corner hide that I have lined with fleece scraps and she's been in there all night, all morning and it's now almost 1pm and she's still in there. When she does go into a hide for the night she usually remains there until the next day in the middle of the afternoon around 2 pm. Her lights go on around 8am and off around 9:00pm. At any point should I take her out of the hide for the day or is it okay to let her stay in all morning and early afternoon?
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Thu May 06, 2021 9:08 am

Post pics of the whole tank--- I want to see what is going on in the tank---
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 am

[Click image to enlarge]

This log on the left is fairly new. Originally I had it positioned in the center of the tank earlier this week, but after our discussion of decor being at least 12" from the uvb I moved it further away to around the same area as the hammock was. If I take the log out she just won't have anything but her hide to climb on. I placed it in there Monday or Tuesday. It's not like her to hide from things in her tank tho. But I could try removing it and see if she comes out.[Click image to enlarge]
here she is napping right now.
[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Thu May 06, 2021 10:32 am

You need something directly under the UVB --- what is the distance from the floor to the UVB--- I would take the log and place it directly under it -- and I would get some more decor pieces for her to climb on --- also I am gonna say she may in be part brumation they do brumate at different times - how long has she been doing this? And I would get a weight on her and keep track of it-- weigh her on a kitchen scale weigh in grams -- what is she eating now? Does she bask after she eats?
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 11:21 am

KarrieRee wrote:You need something directly under the UVB --- what is the distance from the floor to the UVB--- I would take the log and place it directly under it -- and I would get some more decor pieces for her to climb on --- also I am gonna say she may in be part brumation they do brumate at different times - how long has she been doing this? And I would get a weight on her and keep track of it-- weigh her on a kitchen scale weigh in grams -- what is she eating now? Does she bask after she eats?


Distance from floor to uvb is 14". I had a hammock there yesterday and it brings the distance to 12", which were thinking is too close to the uvb. Yesterday she was hiding under tank on warm side. See here.[Click image to enlarge]

So I posted some measurements and removed the hammock.

She's 9-11 months old. Got her when she was 4-6 months old. She very rarely used her hide until about a month ago. I used to have her tank packed with things but ended up taking most of it out for concerns of blocking the uvb lights, or that she wasn't getting enough on some of the branches I had in there. She began acting strange about a month ago and it's just been guessing games ever since. I figured she was just becoming an adult. But this sleeping and hiding all day and decreased appetite is definitely concerning me. She has a vet appointment tomorrow for a wellness/parasite check. I really need her to poop for that! She has a few bites of collard or Dandelion greens, won't eat veggies. And she refuses BSFL and roaches. The last couple weeks she will only eat superworms and at that point for her age I give her as many as she can eat because she's now skipping days between food. Ugh I'm just so concerned about her. I thought 9-11 mo this was too early for brumation? I have another lamp fixture coming and I was going to put a white LED light on the cool side to brighten it a bit. Good idea/bad idea?
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Thu May 06, 2021 11:34 am

Ok I would get a piece of decor under the UVB --- about 12" closest please -- shes eating greens that is good --- shes going thru a teenager stage for food -- lay off the super worms shes hooked -- you want her eating dubias BSFL crickets or silk worms for a staple insect -- yes please NO ENEMAS at the vet --- please tell them that or get a stool sample - enemas often times end up in disaster -- your images did not come thru -- see if they downloaded then post again -- a regular LED will work for cool side of the tank -- I would get your middle of the tank in the 90's make the UVB a second basking area for her - you can use a regular house hold bulb like a 60 watt or so just make sure you have your probe to get that temp--
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 12:50 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Ok I would get a piece of decor under the UVB --- about 12" closest please -- shes eating greens that is good --- shes going thru a teenager stage for food -- lay off the super worms shes hooked -- you want her eating dubias BSFL crickets or silk worms for a staple insect -- yes please NO ENEMAS at the vet --- please tell them that or get a stool sample - enemas often times end up in disaster -- your images did not come thru -- see if they downloaded then post again -- a regular LED will work for cool side of the tank -- I would get your middle of the tank in the 90's make the UVB a second basking area for her - you can use a regular house hold bulb like a 60 watt or so just make sure you have your probe to get that temp--


Ok, you are saying the middle tank ambient temp or the uvb second basking surface temp you mentioned in the 90s? B/c I know there's always a difference btw ambient temp and surface temps

Also, she is still in there looking like she's sleeping. Should I bring her out to warm up in the basking area? Or give her a warm bath or anything to try and get her alert? Is is safe to leave a dragon less than one year in the hide over 24hrs?
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby KarrieRee » Thu May 06, 2021 12:55 pm

Yes shes fine in there -- I am gonna haft to say shes in semi brumation --- yes you want the a basking temp of 90's in the middle of the tank -- mine bounce from the middle of the tank to the hot side - have you weighed her to see if shes losing weight ? poops are they real runny real stinky like enough to drive you from the room smell ? If so that can be a sign of parasites which would cause this type of behavior -- plus the lack of eating --
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Re: Lethargic or just lazy?

Postby Evergrowingfamily » Thu May 06, 2021 1:25 pm

KarrieRee wrote:Yes shes fine in there -- I am gonna haft to say shes in semi brumation --- yes you want the a basking temp of 90's in the middle of the tank -- mine bounce from the middle of the tank to the hot side - have you weighed her to see if shes losing weight ? poops are they real runny real stinky like enough to drive you from the room smell ? If so that can be a sign of parasites which would cause this type of behavior -- plus the lack of eating --


I will get a weight on her today. Then check it once a week, twice a week? Her poop has been very funny, but she has been getting 3-4 baths a week because she usually will drag her tail thru the poop, glass surfing right after because I can't get it immediately. So idk if she's drinking water in the bath. Her poop looks like a puddle of water next to the solid greenish part. It hasn't been smelling too bad lately. Hopefully I can get a sample to take for a fecal parasite test tomorrow.

If this is just brumation, I will have to read up on those articles for juveniles, as I didn't expect to have that happening so soon with her age and it being spring lol.
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