The trust game?

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Re: The trust game?

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:18 am

DorgEndo wrote:I don't think I am that crazy yet.

HOW crazy? Probably more than some here--less than others. :laughing6:

I know I'M not crazy at ALL.... SEE? :lol:
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Re: The trust game?

Postby DorgEndo » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:09 am

Ok. I have a weird one here. Since this thread is about trust I am fairly certain Devlyn just gave me a surprise trust fall experiment. I had just walked past her and sat down, then she purposely dived into the corner loudly scratching the wall. I go to "save" her. After I start bringing her body up you can see she wiggled back down, my eyes were briefly off her at that moment because I was adjusting sitting down and talking to my husband. The video ends short of me pulling her out of the corner ledge she dove into. Things like this make me think there is validity to the hypothesis dragons are testing their people on being a trustworthy giant being to interact with. Hope the link works

(Edit for video link should be public now)

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2Zcj_1jChf ... be0ltg7h3j
Last edited by DorgEndo on Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The trust game?

Postby claudiusx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:30 am

Ok updated to add your theory to the front page :)

But your IG is private so we can't see the video :|

I will say though that some other people in this thread made valid points as to why "trust testing" isn't really a likely thing to happen, as it goes against all their natural instincts to put their life on the line like that. I think it's more an overconfidence thing, they think they can make it, but really can't lol. But, who knows! I love the theories though. :mrgreen:

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
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Re: The trust game?

Postby MrSpectrum » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:55 pm

claudiusx wrote:But your IG is private so we can't see the video :|

FWIW, I don't belong to any social media, and had no trouble watching the video.
However, I didn't/wouldn't interpret what I saw as any kind of "trust fall experiment". :dontknow:
It looked to me like the dragon moved into the corner, possibly lost footing and slipped down behind the decor. It also didn't look like she was stuck (she didn't struggle at all). Looked to me like that's just where she wanted to be--at a high vantage point while being mostly hidden.

But then I don't consider it a "sympathy experiment" when Ol' Furface trips down the stairs, runs into walls, slides his furry butt across the ice-covered driveway and crashes into the garage, slips/skids on a pile of his own... making and crashes into a tree... (I could go on, but I think the point's made. :mrgreen: )

What'd Freud say?..."Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." :roll:
Sometimes animals are just klutzes; that's what drives the internet. :P
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Re: The trust game?

Postby ComicBookMama » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:19 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:
DorgEndo wrote:I don't think I am that crazy yet.

HOW crazy? Probably more than some here--less than others. :laughing6:

I know I'M not crazy at ALL.... SEE? :lol:
[Click image to enlarge]


He's not crazy. His mother had him tested. :wink:
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Re: The trust game?

Postby DorgEndo » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:34 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:
claudiusx wrote:But your IG is private so we can't see the video :|

FWIW, I don't belong to any social media, and had no trouble watching the video.
However, I didn't/wouldn't interpret what I saw as any kind of "trust fall experiment". :dontknow:
It looked to me like the dragon moved into the corner, possibly lost footing and slipped down behind the decor. It also didn't look like she was stuck (she didn't struggle at all). Looked to me like that's just where she wanted to be--at a high vantage point while being mostly hidden.

[....]
What'd Freud say?..."Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." :roll:
Sometimes animals are just klutzes; that's what drives the internet. :P

Made video link public so anyone can view it now. I called it a trust fall because of how loudly and purposely she banged on the wall. She was kicking with a back leg and front leg. 7 months and I have never seen her do anything like that. She will run around and crawl places, but to bang on the wall at a vantage point to see the human come. Dragons have been shown to have their own intelligence. Different from a human by far of course. I'm not sure what she was thinking, but her deliberate actions make me suspect she had a plan, some rudementary logic she was trying to play out
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Re: The trust game?

Postby claudiusx » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:37 pm

I do agree with that assessment. It's been proven that they can learn how to get a certain outcome. Maybe that's how she figured she could get your attention or get you to come to her.

I've thought about tests and experiments to do to test their learning capabilities. Would be really cool to do something like that I think.

-Brandon
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Re: The trust game?

Postby Lizmum77 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:00 pm

claudiusx wrote:
    This is a pretty old thread, and I'm going to keep this first post the way I wrote it many years ago. I will state that I now believe the most likely reasons behind closing of only 1 eye is either to focus on something with the other eye, or as a sign of stress, or annoyance.

After answering a question in another thread where I showed the world (err, you guys) my theory behind why a beardie closes just one eye while being held [often during the beginning stages of a relationship with the owner]I figured I would expand on it here..

Possible reasons why a dragon does this:
    A sign of relaxation
    A sign of comfort
    A sign of pleasure
    A sign of sleepiness....
    Closing one eye to focus on something else with the other eye
    A sign of testing intentions


I will briefly describe each of the possible reasons excluding the last reason. You can skip these if you just want to read about my theory.

A sign of relaxation Sleeping is often seen as the time where any being is at peace, relaxed. Closed eyes are a symbol (sign) of sleep. Therefor making this behavior seem like a sign of relaxation.

A sign of comfort Closely related to A sign of relaxation. A dragon might be closing its eyes because it feels it can trust the person. Therefor they feel comforted and close there eyes.

A sign of pleasure Dogs wag their tails. Do beardies close their eyes? Unlikely since this can be cause by just holding a beardie, or by petting its head. But petting the head does not generate the behavior all of the time, therefor can't be presented as fact.

A sign of sleepiness.... Well some people think so. I believe if they were tired they would close both eyes. And this thread is focused on the behavior behind closing just 1.

Closing one eye to focus on something else with the other eye Dragons don't do this under normal conditions (inside there tank) so it makes no sense that they would do this when being held.

    My theory

Dragons are timid by nature. They are not social lizards. They do not usually form bonds. Them being introduced to the pet hobby has exposed them to situations where natural instinct my conflict with what is happening is what is happening to them.

As with any animal, they are not tame by nature. Even a cat or a dog who has had no human exposure will be the last of the pack to get around a human.

This proves that dragons don't just automatically trust someone or something.

A dragon usually only exhibits this behavior (one eye closed) during the beginning stages of a relationship, and during relocation stress. To me this is a clear indication that there is a reason and a motive behind the behavior.

The dragon usually (all of the time in my observations, but can't be said for others) closes the eye that is facing the human. While keeping the other eye open.
Can this be a test for the dragon? A dangerous test but a necessary one?
Its my belief that the reasoning behind a dragon doing this is to test the intentions of the being holding it so closely. "it sees my eye closed it must think im asleep. What will it do now that i'm asleep? Will it leave me alone. Will it eat me? Will it hurt me? Etc.."

[list]I have been observing BD's for almost 10 years. And I always kept a notebook full of behavior that I saw, and I would ask myself why is it doing this? And I would document everything that was happening and what happened. I wouldn't post this if I just obsereved a dragon for 5 minutes and came to this conclusion out of no where.

Does this information mean anything? Possibly. It gives us some insight on the inner workings of a bearded dragons behavior. No its not something important like why is he headbobbing, why is she arm waving. But with anything, it can be used to open new doors. If dragons are smart enough to "test" us, what else are they smart enough to do that we might not be picking up on?

That is the reason for this post.
Give me your thoughts on this. I would like to hear them.

-Brandon


Mine does it when I hold him. Sometimes he gradually opens his other eye. I've seen him do it in his Viv too so not sure if he is happy or uncomfortable. I'm finding it hard to read him sometimes!
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Re: The trust game?

Postby Aaradimian » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:48 am

ComicBookMama wrote:
MrSpectrum wrote:
DorgEndo wrote:I don't think I am that crazy yet.

HOW crazy? Probably more than some here--less than others. :laughing6:

I know I'M not crazy at ALL.... SEE? :lol:
[Click image to enlarge]


He's not crazy. His mother had him tested. :wink:


And I'm sure all Mr. S's voices agree. Mine usually do. "No we don't". "Who asked you?!". "I did, thanks, and he's right, we do!". "Man, will all of you keep it down!?"

Excuse me for a min. while I sort this out. :lol:
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