My male beardy has not moved since last night

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My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby Allen7129 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:42 am

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Hi I hope someone can answer my question as it's worrying me, I have had my gorgeous boy for about 2 weeks now and he has been great., playful, alert etc.. but last night I had him running round chasing my cats in my lounge.. after a while he went and got in my DVD rack and flatten out and went sleep I left him for 20mins and picked him up but him in his viv.. this morning he usually gets up when I turn his lights on and says hello, but he was still sleeping,, I went to work and came back 7 hours later and he is still in the same place and has not moved and inch.. any ideas anyone please?

Top picture is of him in the spot he hasn't moved from and the other pic is so people can see his setup
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:41 am

Are you seeing any signs of life ? ...., see what happens when you pet him on the head or back or pick him up....

I can see a lot serious issues in your bearded dragon's viv.

The obvious ones are :

>>> Sand .

>>> Inadequate lighting .

>>> Lack of UVA & UVB lighting .

>>> Fake plastic plants .

>>> Mesh hammock.

>>> Cats !
Please keep the cats away from your bearded dragon , I can assure you that it's only a matter of time before one of them attacks your bearded dragon and either seriously mauls it or tortures it to death.


Need much more information and details on your beardie's setup and your husbandry otherwise we can't even hazard a guess.

Here's my Cheat Sheet :

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050

if you work through it methodically , the chances are the likely issues that need to be tweeked or changed will pop right out at you, if you can give very detailed answers we will then be in a position to offer help.
Is impossible to help you if you don't provide thorough details .

It may prove necessary to involve a reptile vet if your bearded dragon has serious health issues.
Are you in a position to afford to take him to a good reptile vet should this prove necessary ?
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby Allen7129 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:45 am

The lighting is fine in the viv and uvb and Iva are Correct as I had a beardy expert set it all up for me.,,,, the bulbs are brand new and I use a 60w basking bulb and the temps are spot on in basking side and cool side which are 105F basking and 85F cool side...

As for the mesh hammock he absolutely loves it and mostly sleeps on it at night but this time he is under it.

And what's wrong with the sand the sand is calci sand bought from a reptile store... so if ingested of small amounts does not affect them at all and the only thing is could ask on is what's the problem with fake plastic plants ? What issues does that cause for them?

But as for him being alert he is fine,,, when I pet him on his head or open his viv he looks up at me but just seems very sleepy I'm now guessing wether it's a sign of bumation?

And ok from now I will keep him away from my cats thanks.
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:15 pm

Allen7129 wrote:The lighting is fine in the viv and uvb and Iva are Correct as I had a beardy expert set it all up for me.,,,, the bulbs are brand new and I use a 60w basking bulb and the temps are spot on in basking side and cool side which are 105F basking and 85F cool side...

As for the mesh hammock he absolutely loves it and mostly sleeps on it at night but this time he is under it.

And what's wrong with the sand the sand is calci sand bought from a reptile store... so if ingested of small amounts does not affect them at all and the only thing is could ask on is what's the problem with fake plastic plants ? What issues does that cause for them?

But as for him being alert he is fine,,, when I pet him on his head or open his viv he looks up at me but just seems very sleepy I'm now guessing wether it's a sign of bumation?

And ok from now I will keep him away from my cats thanks.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:26 pm

Allen7129 wrote:The lighting is fine in the viv and uvb and Iva are Correct as I had a beardy expert set it all up for me.,,,, the bulbs are brand new and I use a 60w basking bulb and the temps are spot on in basking side and cool side which are 105F basking and 85F cool side...
<<< heard that before , usually the "expert" was a no-nothing petshop employee, best if you give us a thorough run down in detail so we (there are actual experts here) can check.

As for the mesh hammock he absolutely loves it and mostly sleeps on it at night but this time he is under it.
<<< mesh hammocks are very dangerous for beardies because they get their nails snagged in the mesh and often do serious injuries to their limbs or hips or shoulders when they find they are caught up and panic ... better off removing it and replacing with something safer.

And what's wrong with the sand the sand is calci sand bought from a reptile store... so if ingested of small amounts does not affect them at all and the only thing is could ask on is what's the problem with fake plastic plants ? What issues does that cause for them?
<<<< who every told you that was BSing you. Calci-sand is lethal, we often see badly impacted / dying beardies here who have ingested the stuff , who die horrible painful deaths because some petshop told a noob calcisand /vitasand is fine .... it is not , it clumps and reacts to form concrete like blockages in the gut and intestines and when this happens - it's literally a death sentence to the lizard.

fake plants - nibbled , indigestible , impaction ==> death




But as for him being alert he is fine,,, when I pet him on his head or open his viv he looks up at me but just seems very sleepy I'm now guessing wether it's a sign of bumation? If it's summer there, it's not brumation .... something else is going on that needs investigation , how old are the UV lights ?
What exactly are the UV lights and how are they set up ? (details/photos/distances).

And ok from now I will keep him away from my cats thanks.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby Allen7129 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:36 am

My uvb lighting is placed under the hood at the top towards the back of viv,

I use a Arcadia 14% D3 tube which is only 2months old and also put a metal foil type back plate behind tune to reflect down on viv for maximum uva and uvb.

He has a climbing branch too

The basking bulb I use is a pro reptile 60w basking bulb and is around 35-40cm from his spot.

Temps at the basking spot are 105F measured with a thermo infrared gun pointing laser on his stone.

Temps in cool side is 85F.

I can post pics later when home.

Thanks for info. I will be getting rid of the sand.

I will get rid of the hammock and fake plants.

He has calcium + D3 powder dusted on his hoppers 4 times a week.

Could you tell me the perfect substrate for beardies please, someone told me to use puppy training pads ?
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:11 pm

That sounds pretty good to me. Your temp gradient is good and the 14% UVB is really quite powerful. How far above the basking area is that? Does he have an area he can get away from the UVB? You might turn it off for a little and see how he reacts. Perhaps he's hiding from it. If you take him out of the enclosure does he become active or alert? He looks like he's healthy and at a pretty good weight based on the photo which is a good sign. Have you been tracking his weight?

As for substrate, I like using solid ones because they are easy to clean up and sanitize. I have ceramic tile in my tank. That works well but is quite hard. non adhesive shelf liner is a popular option as well. Generally just something that is easy to clean up and sanitize will do the trick. You can put down some bits of fleece, maybe a small blanket, to offer some relief if the substrate appears to be too hard. Fleece won't get caught in his nails and is easy to clean by tossing in the washer.
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby Allen7129 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:56 pm

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I haven't measured exactly how far away It is but it's not far from it at all... pictures will follow... I have rearranged his viv a little took out the mesh hammock but ATM I'm leaving fake plants and sand in until Friday as I have no time to go reptile store to get other stuff for him due to work... as we speak I have a hide coming in the post for him to go where his hammock was.... ATM he just hides under his branch sometimes,

Yes when I take him out or pet him he is alert and likes to say hello and try's to jump on my hands but as soon as I leave him alone, within 1 or 2 mins he goes back to sleep and stays asleep until I wake him up. Today he is seeming more with it and getting up more but still goes back and lays down... there is no lumps in his belly, he is the right colour of what he is meant to be... he is hydrated.. I use a syringe every now and then and drop water onto the tip of his nose and he licks it...

Just don't know why he so sleepy

And no that's something I have not done is weigh him.
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:09 pm

It's a good sign that he is alert when you take him out. Perhaps try turning the UVB light off for a bit or put some clear plastic in front of the half of the bulb away from the basking area and see how he reacts. Perhaps he is hiding from the brightness or intensity. Not necessarily the case but a possibility and easy to test out.
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby kingofnobbys » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:07 pm

If you can aim the tube's reflector down towards the basking spot and the viv floor , it appears to be aimed out of the viv ATM so he's getting bugger all UVA & UVB as a result.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby Allen7129 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:53 am

Kingofnobby

I have said above that my reflector metal foil gaurd that is behind bulb is reflecting down on his viv and basking spot

I know he is getting maximum uva and uvb, but like cooper dragon said he could be getting too much of it and hiding from it maybe I'll try turn it off for a bit see how he goes
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby kingofnobbys » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:37 am

Allen7129 wrote:Kingofnobby

I have said above that my reflector metal foil gaurd that is behind bulb is reflecting down on his viv and basking spot <<< I must have missed it or forgot I read that... that's good that it's focusing the UVA and UVB where you need it .

I know he is getting maximum uva and uvb, but like cooper dragon said he could be getting too much of it and hiding from it maybe I'll try turn it off for a bit see how he goes


Unlikely , no REPTILE UV source will come even close to the UV levels they are adapted for in their a natural range in the Australian summer. See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234801&p=1806497#p1806497
When they have soaked up enough UVA and UVB they will simply seek out a shady spot , all my beardies and skinks do this, as do the wild skinks and dragons here abouts (NSW Australia).
Essentially your beardie would have to get under 4 inches from T5HO 10 - 12%UVB tube to get UV approaching the levels that are adapted for in their natural range.

No harm in trying Cooper's suggestion.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: My male beardy has not moved since last night

Postby EllenD » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:26 pm

I just want to reinforce that you really need to get rid of the Calcisand, I have seen that stuff kill many, many beardies, the only thing worse is crushed walnut shells...So the "bearded dragon expert" that told you to put it in the tank needs to do some research on substrates, other than that your tank looks good. Calcisand (or Vitasand), same thing, turns into a cement like, rock hard substance that kills them in a few different ways, depending on how much they have inside them. Also, it quickly turns into a big tank of bacteria, fungi, and parasites being harbored within it, which will infection and reinfect your beardie. That whole "it's fine because if they eat it it passes right through them or they digest it" or whatever the bag says or whatever the "expert" told you is a bunch of garbage, experience watching multiple beardies suffer for hours before either finally dying or being put down is a lot more powerful...Trust me, get it out of there immediately if you haven't yet...

And the green mesh hammocks can be used, but you must cover it with a piece of fleece or a towel or something, as their toenails get caught all the time, and then they either fall off or actually yank at their arms and usually dislocate them...I've seen this many times as well...

And please, please, please do not let your beardie out of his enclosure in the same room as a cat ever again, even supervised it only takes one good whack with their claws...And forgetting they become obsessed and want to constantly stalk and hunt them, CAT SALIVA IS DEADLY TO BEARDIES, IT CONTAINS A BACTERIA THAT KILLS THEM VERY QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY, WHETHER FROM THEIR MOUTH (THEY OFTEN BITE THEM) OR FROM THEIR CLAWS AFTER LICKING THEM!!!
"Dance like nobody's watching..."
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