??? Lesbian Beardies ???

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??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby roddy » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:22 pm

[TOPIC AUTO-LOCKED DUE TO INACTIVITY]

Are my Beardies gay, confused, or just visibly appearing to be the wrong sex. (I suspect the later)

Last October I rehoused 2 beardies (happy and grumpy) who I was told were both female and had been living together since they were 2 and 3 months old respectively (at this stage they were around 10 month). Both have a single lump by their vents so I had no reason to doubt this.

At first they were happy, but luckily I had a spare viv on hand. After a month or so, one evening Grumpy (the larger of the 2) began bullying Happy, not just head bobbing, but nose ramming Happy. Then after a couple of times, Grumpy 'latched' onto Happys side. At this point I seperated them.

I always let them run around my flat for a hour or so every 2 or 3 days, when I let Grumpy out she would run infront of Happys viv and head bob, happy would just stare back at grumpy, but after about a week, Happy would respond by bobbing back at Grumpy, this went on for about a month, until they seemed ok with one another, I let them out together and they just ignored each other, so after a few runs out like this I tried putting them back together.

They seemed much happier together and would often curle up beside one another and their appetites increased so I left them in the one viv.

However, one day I saw Happy (the smaller and subisive one) 'mount' Grumpy. They did not get into position (tails not entwined), but seemed to be attempting to mate. After a few days they had figured it out and were evidently breeding. I was not too invading of their privacy, but had a look and could not see anything that appeared falic, but the vents were covered by their tails.

This happened a few times, but since then they have simply been happily living together.

The only change in behaviour is that Happy would not eat, until after Grumpy for a few weeks, Grumpy has put on weight, but no decernable egg lumps and it is several weeks since their mating attempts.

I am not looking for advice, but felt this was unusual and my be of interest to some people here. I have 2 theories as to what has happened;

1 - Grumpy is female and Happy male; they both still only have 1 visible vent lump, but maybe Happy just isn't well endowed. In this case Grumpy matured and harassed Happy for attention, but Happy had not matured until after the seperation time, however in this case Grumpy should be carrying and pretty much ready to lay, perhaps Happy is infertile, or its just a long gestation period.

2 - They are both female, Grumpy matured and developed urges, she harassed Happy and Happy has learnt to take a male sexual role merely to placate Grumpy. I am not sure if this sort of behaviour is even possible amongst reptiles. But, if anyone has had a similar experience I would be very interested to hear about it.
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Re: ??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby JessPets » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Please, please, PLEASE get them separated at once. Can you post pics of their vents with tails at a 90º so we can help confirm gender? Either way, one of them is bound to get hurt- please separate them
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Re: ??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby Gormagon » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:28 pm

These are signs that trouble is brewing. These creatures are territorial and, will fight to the death to defend it "they don't play well with others". What you are seeing is posturing for dominance. Once this starts it gets worse from there. Trust me, the dominant one is bigger, eats more and, takes up the best basking spot.
Here is a good example of what you have to look forward to if you don't separate them asap!
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=228673
Yes, this is what happens when they are housed together!
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
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Re: ??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby roddy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:07 pm

I am not a newbie with beardies and your claims that they always kill/mutilate one another when kept together are far from factual. That is what happens if they are left together without proper care or space and also what can happen merely due to a clash of personalities on occasions, but it is far from a guarenteed outcome.

A friend of mine kept 3 together who all lived happily to ages of 7, 7 and 9. 1 male and 2 female. They all died of old age.

I expect you think that I am a careless new owner that merely leaves them together and rarely pays attention to them, other than at feeding time and when I want to handle them. Were as in fact my viv holds a place of dominance over my TV and is certainly viewed more.

Obviously I have a spare setup on hand, just incase, which as I stated I did resort to for some time. I can put pictures up at another date, but can assure you that by appearance they are clearly both female. However I know that at times males are not evident by merely looking at their lumps behind the vents, although by their current age that should be clear. I am intending to get a high power torch to light check them for sex which is a much better way.

Regarding their current behaviour for dominance; they currently eat about the same ammount although the slightly smaller one (and youngest by a month or so) is a little hesitant with its fruit and veg. The smaller one always claims the best basking spot, the smaller one is the one that mounted the other although all signs of mating behaviour have ended long ago. Since their mating attempts, they have never shown black beards and never head bobbed to one another, although on occasion they have both head bobbed at me to let me know they want a run out.
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Re: ??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby Gormagon » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:47 pm

Sorry we or I offended you with our/my concerns, we only do this to prevent our little friends from wine ng up like the one in that thread I gave a link to.
The wonderful world of bearded dragons is a magical land of mystery, enchantment, cuddles, love and, worry! A mysterious realm where things always seem to change in an instant and, the moment you think you have it all figured out, the rules change! You think you own your dragon, guess again. You are now a slave!!!
RIP Peaches 10-1-18 Forever in my Heart
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Re: ??? Lesbian Beardies ???

Postby JessPets » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:35 pm

roddy wrote:I am not a newbie with beardies and your claims that they always kill/mutilate one another when kept together are far from factual. That is what happens if they are left together without proper care or space and also what can happen merely due to a clash of personalities on occasions, but it is far from a guarenteed outcome.

A friend of mine kept 3 together who all lived happily to ages of 7, 7 and 9. 1 male and 2 female. They all died of old age.

I expect you think that I am a careless new owner that merely leaves them together and rarely pays attention to them, other than at feeding time and when I want to handle them. Were as in fact my viv holds a place of dominance over my TV and is certainly viewed more.

Obviously I have a spare setup on hand, just incase, which as I stated I did resort to for some time. I can put pictures up at another date, but can assure you that by appearance they are clearly both female. However I know that at times males are not evident by merely looking at their lumps behind the vents, although by their current age that should be clear. I am intending to get a high power torch to light check them for sex which is a much better way.

Regarding their current behaviour for dominance; they currently eat about the same amount although the slightly smaller one (and youngest by a month or so) is a little hesitant with its fruit and veg. The smaller one always claims the best basking spot, the smaller one is the one that mounted the other although all signs of mating behavior have ended long ago. Since their mating attempts, they have never shown black beards and never head bobbed to one another, although on occasion they have both head bobbed at me to let me know they want a run out.


And that friend got lucky. Beardies are solitary animals, and that IS a fact. I am sorry you don't believe us, but when something goes wrong, you can't blame us for trying. Think about it. What is one gets yellow fungus? Do you know how incredibly easily it spreads? Then, instead of one sick beardie, you got two. What if one IS a boy, and suddenly the female lays a batch of fertile eggs? Will you hatch them and try to sell them in an already saturated market, or will you freeze the eggs, killing tons of baby lizards? There is just too many stories on here of 'they were fine until they weren't'. It is insane the amount of of 'HELP! Baby beardie got attacked!' topics get posted on here. You wan't to risk it? Go ahead. But just know you are carelessly endangering one or two helpless animals that depend on YOU for help. Good luck.
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