baby Beardie - swinging head (abnormally) lethargic -

Hi
we recently purchased a few baby central bearded dragons. All are thriving and now approx 20 cm long incl tail. One however is still basicallythe same hatchling size. We have had them now for a few weeks and this little fella (or girl) whilst being small has shown no illness symptoms until about five days ago.
He basically just sits there all day, though he will occasionally go for a run. He is eating occasionally but not as much as he should.
The main concren is this... five days ago or so, I picked him up as usual and he started swinging his body around, lke how they would if they didnt want to be held but its not that. The main problem with this swinging seem sto be in his head... his breathing i s so shallow you cannot see him breathing and atleast twice a day I walk in convonced he is dead until I touch him. (no im not poking and proding him every two minutes) Also when he is laying on the sand (making no attempt to bask in warmth) his head is basically held at an angle (ear to the ground)
does anyone have any suggestions on what could be wrong. I dont want to keep him alive if he is suffering but I would also like to offer the best chance of recovery if this is going to be possible...

Is he pooping everyday?
Additional info:
Lighting? Diet? Substrate? Temps?

Sorry.. Should have thought

(s)he did a poop today was not really runny and was both colours. But has not been pooing every day.
substrate is a red sand we use for all our reptiles (we keep others as well) It is the proper reptile sand we buy in a bag.

Diet is
Water, vegetables everyday (corn, broccoli(minimul), lettuce(very little), and what ever else (not literally nor spinach)
plus crickets coated in calcium 6 days and supplement 1 day

Is is a Exo terra tank with the right lighting (cant recall all the tecnical stuff but I know its right) bar perhaps he is sharing a heat lamp atm (but still has the other light) Nil light at night.
basically we have 7 more they are all big and thriving, they are from 2 sepreate clutches.
he is on his own atm but hasnt been when he was same size as others. We had another litle one but he is not as big but def doing well.

he just lays there legs splayed or how ever they chance to be. Never seen this behaviour is any baby of any breed before, we have had a few 'runts' now and all did ok in our 'hospital' but this one is new for me.

Is the sand calcium sand? If so it should be removed immediately and replaced with either, paper towels, reptile carpet, shelf liner (lino), or tiles. If you do a search on this forum for calci sand you will see it is dangerous for bearded dragons as it can cause impaction, especially in young beardies.

It is good you have seperated him from the others as Bearded Dragons are solitary animals and are generally best housed alone.

Make sure you have a good UVB light. Dont use a compact/coil bulb. Make sure its a long tube (Repti-Sun 10.0 is the best) which he can get as close as 8" of, or a MVB bulb (Megaray).

What temperature is the basking spot and what are you using to measure this (infa red temp gun, digital temp with a long wire and a probe or a dial type thermometer)?

If he is not eating you may need to syringe feed him a slurry of chicken/squash baby food mixed with calcium.

Hello,

Are you using the Reptiglo 10 flourescent tube light or a compact or coil light? If so, you might want to consider getting a Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb instead. The Reptiglo 10 has not had a good report thus far.
It sounds like the smallest one may have had some problems hatching out & is having some calcium issues. I suggest using some liquid calcium for him to see if that will help correct it early on. He might have been one of the last eggs laid & perhaps the mother was running low on calcium when she laid him or later on in her pregnancy that affected a few of her eggs. That can happen.
Try that, & think about getting the Reptisun 10 light, if only just for him to see if that will help him out.
If he is not eating right now, you should try to get some chicken or turkey babyfood along with some squash babyfood & gently using a plastic dropper or syringe drop some on his nose to get some food & fluids into him.

Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

yes we are using the repti glo 10 light but in a coil. He is losing weight.

The coil bulb is your problem. None of the coil uvb bulb are good and cause you beardie to have eye problems (to start) going from their to not wanting to eat, then death. I think you main problem is that your beardie isn't getting enough of the good uvb he needs, that's why it was suggested earlier that you change your uvb to the reptisun 10 tube. That's the best fluorescent uvb you can get. I would turn off your coil uvb right away because that's a big part of your problem.

Hello,

Well, as instructed, please take the reptiglo 10 coil light out of the tank & just use a basking light right now.
Since he is losing weight you are going to have to being syringe or assisted feeding so he will get some nourishment into him & gain some weight back. Also get some pedialyte mixed with some water to give to him as well.
Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

My partner is having difficulty understanding about the problem with the lights as we have in total 11 other dragons all raised under the same light with no dramas and also this is what has been recommended by not only a professor but two other knowledgable people.
I dont doubt your knowledge but perhaps further explanation as to why its a prob may help the understanding?
I gave hi, some water drops earlier but I dont think he got any. Will try assist feeding in a couple of hours.

I read on a previous thread about grape juice being given to a beardie displaying similiar probs due to low blood sugar. Does thi ssound applicble in this situation?

Hello,

You can try the grape juice diluted with some water for a few days, along with the regular feedings to see if he improves. Is he still displaying that type of behavior?
I can't answer why one dragon in particular would have more of a problem than your others. As I have said, perhaps he had low calcium when he was hatched, or he is growing more quickly than the others, or it is just a genetic problem. All dragons are different & have a unique metabolism just like humans do. So, it is not uncommon that what works for one dragon will not work for another for whatever reason.
I will say that there is a large number of people who have used the Reptiglo 10 only to begin seeing problems with their dragons down the road. Some see immediate problems while others see problems later on. What I have seen is people who did use the Reptiglo 10 may not have seen any problems externally, they did report lethargic behavior & just overall poor health of their dragon.
As I suggest, I do not recommend this light right now. I wont until I see the UVB meter test results early this year when the report comes out. It is just a poor UVB light & not really worth the money.

I hope your baby is better soon.

Tracie

As in the coil light is a waste if money?? For AU$35.00 It is well worth one more experienced (as your self) opinion.
I gave him hydralight (same as pedilight) or how its spelt.
He was dehydrated/// no doubt. He would not open his mouth. I smothered (dont take me literally in a bad way) his mouth with it. He was perkier. Not as wrinkly.
ARRGGHH!!! Basically.
This poor little dude is just wasting away. I feel so helpless...
Cmon little fella. You can do it!!!!

yes the coil light is a waste of money but the reptiglo 10.0 in any form is a bad bulb and there all a waste of money, an "apparently" bearded dragon expert told me to get the reptiglo 10.0 when i purchased my very first dragon however i saw a very unhealthy dragon, very lethargic and down when i was using it now ive got the reptisun 10.0 tube there larger than life, such an amazing difference!
you will find many many many people on this site that will instantly say a big no no to the reptiglo.

Awww, poor little thing. I do hope and pray he recovers.
Just to add my two cents- Listen to Tracie. She is absolutly one of the best. I have watched her walk folks through dragon healing and rehab over the past year and have been truely amazed. She is both trained and gifted.
Also to help in rehydrating, (I may have missed the answer,if so sorry) Are you bathing him? let the little fella soak in a small tote for a bit. I used the shoebox size when Bogie was small. It is less intimidating than the big sink. I put a washcloth and a small rock in the bottom. If you can keep him in a bit of warm water for 20 min or so several times a day he won't be as dehydrated. Some folks put the pedialite in the bath water. You'd have to ask about that, I have never tried it.

Tracie- you may want to send them the link to that lighting report on the repti-glo's and coils. It may help her hubby understand.

Sandy H

Hello,

I will post a few links here for her to read that might help them understand how poor the UVB emissions are & that at certain distances they can be hazardous.

This is for the compacts/coils:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/message/5403

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/message/5411

This is for the tube bulbs:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/message/5448


I hope this helps explain things a little more.

Tracie

Thank you for the links, appreciated.
I have been assist feeding with fluids and a few times a day giving a few drops.

I have reached the conclusion he is weird

The last two days he has been the same but - has caught crickets whoo hoo, and this evening is the perkiest ive seen him in days.

he is looking not as dehydrated (more full body esp his legs)

fingers crossed and will post back tomorrow