UPSIDE DOWN baby bearded dragon won't eat or open eyes!

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I bought my girlfriend a baby bearded dragon for Christmas that she named Blue after the dinosaur in Jurassic Park. He's young.. probably about 5-6 inches long counting his tail. I don't know what gender he is so I'm going to refer to him as a male for now. He's started acting bizarre ever since the first few days we got took him home. We did a bunch of research before-hand to make sure we could give him the best and most accurate tank setup possible. I'll list what we have below:

-30 Gal Tank - 30x12x12
-ZooMed 100w Basking Bulb
-24" ZooMed T5 UVB 10.0 bulb
-Brown "Carpet" substrate .. not sand
-The hot side of the tank gets around 102 degrees with the basking spot maybe a few degrees hotter
-The cooler side of the tank gets around 82 or so

In Petco, he had energy, ran around his cage, looked at stuff attentively moving his head. Now we've had him for about 2 weeks and the only time he's ever really moved or open his eyes fully was the first day. He sits still all day and rarely open his eyes. We offer him fresh greens everyday with an assortment of calcium-dusted mealworms, calciworms, and dubia roaches to try and see if he likes different things but he won't even open his eyes to look at them. The only way we can get him to eat or drink now is using liquid through a syringe which he does not take much of either.

He has this weird behavior where he fully straightens his front legs and will put his head fully pointed UP towards the sky (with eyes closed), or his head is fully DOWN towards the floor (with eyes closed). Never straight ahead. He frequently opens his mouth like he's "yawning" every so often.

The other day I was walking by his cage and could not see him. I found him UPSIDE DOWN in between his food and water bowls. At first I thought he was dead but saw his chest was extending rapidly like he was breathing super fast. (I know reptiles have trouble breathing upside down). I said WHAT ARE YOU DOING? and he quickly flipped over like he was startled and sat right side up again. If he was conscious enough to get startled by my voice, why didn't he just flip himself over?

One more thing I want to mention is the first day when he had energy he noticed we were putting dubia roaches in his tank and he eagerly ran over. He had two roaches but then bit onto a food "pellet" that came with the starter kit and starting shaking his head violently and rubbing his mouth against his food dish. I grabbed the pellet and it was so hard I could not break it with my fingernail. I only put this in there to see if he liked it and because it came with the ZooMed starter kit but now I know better than to ever feed him this food. Ever since this his mouth area has turned black/green and his jaw doesn't look like it closes fully on this side.

Sorry for the long story but I wanted to give a accurate description of what's going on. If anyone has any clues what's going on feel free to share. My only other idea is bringing him to a emergency vet. If anyone wants pics of his enclosure or behavior let me know!
 

BlueTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
I wanted to provide some pictures to give an idea of what we are working with:

This is the first day we got him.. happy taking a bath with EYES OPEN:
110053-9326684330.jpg

Head Straight up.. he usually stays like this all the time with his eyes closed. He's not always on the log near the light. He does this everywhere:
110053-3490445968.jpg

Head straight DOWN... he's been like this alot lately:
110053-2235840676.jpg

Black/Green mark on his nose where he bit the pellet.. Looks like his mouth doesn't close fully. I think this causes him pain he he flinches hard if we try to entice him with a green on his nose:
110053-1373246131.jpg

Full Enclosure - 100w Basking Light and UVB 10.0 T5 bulb. He's on the half log:
110053-9939040760.jpg

Closer picture of him on the log. Usually he's WHITE but lately he's been turning very DARK. Looks like he's camouflaging with the log:
110053-7176227662.jpg

Slowly slipping off log with eyes closed and head pointed UP. He slipped so much he eventually FELL OFF:
110053-2215900170.jpg
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Ok he sounds sick and not good I am afraid to say--- the T 5 bulb is great but its probably going to need to go inside the tank if the screen is a fine mesh and he needs to be able to sit directly under it w/ a distance of 12-15 inches --- please get that done as soon as possible but I am not sure if its going to do any good from the behavior your describing -- you can hang w/ these 3 M command Velcro fasteners- picture hanging wire – long plastic zip ties-- fishing line -- potted plant wire hangers -- these work great and I am using these they are like Velcro strap https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-ft-Cable-Ties-Hook-and-Loop-Spool-Black-10375/304220195
You need to get basking temps w/ a digital probe thermometer the stick ons are inaccurate -- I am going to flag your post to our Vet Tech Mod Tracie --- the behavior your describing sounds like star gazing -- it is a virus that Tracie can explain to you more she is on at late nite
What is the coil bulb?
Karrie
 

BlueTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Hi Karrie thanks for your reply. Unfortunately the basking wood is very high and his basking spot is only 6" from the top of the mesh. I moved the top mesh out so the UV light went directly through it unobstructed but felt that it was too close.

I looked up star gazing and says it could be caused anything such as calcium deficiency to Atadenovirus. Do you think this is something he contracted at Petco or could he have gotten him when we got him home? Do humans have it? His health is the most important thing but we've only had him about a week and a half and I wonder what recourse we have if they sold us a sick dragon.

The Coil bulb next to the basking bulb is a Reptisun 10.0 compact UVB. It came with the tank "starter kit" but bought the Reptisun T5 bulb after a few days since we read the Compact/Coil bulbs can cause eye issues. We never turn it the compact bulb on.

I do feel llike his mouth is starting to look pretty funky since trying to bite through the pellet and flipping out. Do lizards get "bruised"? Notice the right side of his nose is black and his jaw doesn't make a good seal:
IMG-20201221-102348.jpg

IMG-20201221-150625.jpg
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
That's what I was thinking about the virus- if one clutch mate in the tank has it they all contract it and it seems to be a common thing in the box stores-- which is a sad thing- make sure the distance is 12-15 inches for your UVB- I need Tracie to respond on care and what to expect and about his mouth- do not feed anymore pellets- I would advise getting him some BSFL ASAP and feed those- they are a great staple feeder for babies-- they are also known as Phoenix worms calci worms or nutri grubs- see if any of your pet stores sell them or get them online- www.symptonbsf.com
Some shippers are on holiday now so I don't know who is shipping- there are other places that sell them let me know if you can't find them I will post other sites
I need Tracie to help you in the meantime keep.him hydrated and proper basking temps 105-110 look at your pet stores for the digital probe thermometer you need that ASAP- is he eating? You can try using some raw unpasteurized honey like manuka- on his lip- that will prevent infection- if your feeding crickets DO NOT leave any in the tank
Karrie
 

BlueTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
I know the first post is so long this was probably missed lol but we do already have Calciworms, Mealworms, and Dubia Roaches since we tried to see if he likes different things but he won't even open his eyes to look at them. The only way we can get him to eat or drink now is using liquid through a syringe which he does not take much of either. Do you know anyone who mixes calcium in the water?

I'll look into the probe thermometer ASAP and wait for Tracie to comment on the potential health issues of poor Blue.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Poor little one, he is definitely having trouble! His snout got bruised by eating or biting a
pellet? As Karrie suggested, using a raw, unpasteurized honey on the mouth would be an
excellent idea, since it is safe if ingested.
He may have adeno virus, or a calcium issue. It appears neurological to me, with the idiopathic
type of head tilting up, or stargazing. He could have a respiratory infection too.
If you need a great quality liquid calcium, I do mix one up, & have a small online store. I can
send you a link to it if you need. Do you have a plastic dropper or just a syringe that you use?
For now, I would try to keep him around 75-80 overnight, to help boost his immune system.
With regards to adeno, they definitely can contract it if housed in the same tank as another one
or they may not. There is no rhyme or reason to it but sometimes some can contract it while
others don't.
What is the humidity in the tank? Sometimes, if the humidity is too low, it can cause marked
dehydration or dry out their inner ear membranes causing problems.
He is very sweet. I hope that we can get him going back in the right direction.

Tracie
 

BlueTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":la7se1m9 said:
Hello,

Poor little one, he is definitely having trouble! His snout got bruised by eating or biting a
pellet? As Karrie suggested, using a raw, unpasteurized honey on the mouth would be an
excellent idea, since it is safe if ingested.
He may have adeno virus, or a calcium issue. It appears neurological to me, with the idiopathic
type of head tilting up, or stargazing. He could have a respiratory infection too.
If you need a great quality liquid calcium, I do mix one up, & have a small online store. I can
send you a link to it if you need. Do you have a plastic dropper or just a syringe that you use?
For now, I would try to keep him around 75-80 overnight, to help boost his immune system.
With regards to adeno, they definitely can contract it if housed in the same tank as another one
or they may not. There is no rhyme or reason to it but sometimes some can contract it while
others don't.
What is the humidity in the tank? Sometimes, if the humidity is too low, it can cause marked
dehydration or dry out their inner ear membranes causing problems.
He is very sweet. I hope that we can get him going back in the right direction.

Tracie
Hi Tracie,

I ended up taking him to a HERP vet in this forum's sticky and had a horrible experience. I even called first to make sure they do treat bearded dragons. When i arrived I explained I believed he had a mouth infection causing him pain and that's why he wouldn't eat so it's hard to tell if this is a calcium deficiency or indeed Adenovirus causing this lethargy and head tilting. I expected them to evaluate the dragon or run tests. They called me back 4 hours later to tell me that the bearded dragon appears sick and they recommend euthanization. I'm not opposed to euthanization if that is the right option but I asked what about his mouth? They said the tissue does appear corroded but there is nothing hey can do because it's hard to give antibiotics to reptiles! I said ok, so how do you know it's Adenovirus.. did you do a PCR swab? The vet asked the "bearded dragon expert" and advised they don't test by PCR and they diagnose Adenovirus by autopsy alone. They then tried to guilt trip me for not euthanizing. This was an APPROVED Herp veterinarian found in the sticky of this forum but could not diagnosis or treat any conditions and recommended euthanization only... Crazy!!

To answer your questions.. The first day we unfortunately put a pellet from a food pack that came with the starter kit and he bit it by accident thinking it was a roach. He immediately started shaking his head and rubbing his mouth on her food bowl. Then he went and hid. I'm thinking this injured him and/or broke his tooth and now it's infected. I could be wrong. I bought Manuka honey on Amazon which will be in Monday and went and bought Betadine solution from Walmart. Is it safe to swab Betadine on his mouth while I wait for the honey to come in?

To feed him we are actually using a metered dropper you use to administer medications to a child. We put it on his snout and he starts licking it up a bit usually. The vet gave us EmerAid IC Omnivore Critical Care meal which we need to mix with water. Per mL it looks like it has 1.01% Calcium and 0.60% Phosphorus. It's not specific to bearded dragons so maybe I should add more calcium to it?

The humidity is usually around 25-35%.. Now I am staring at him and his eyes are closed and he appears to be breathing so heavy. Maybe I should have euthanized him but not before giving him a chance. I'm going to bring him to a different vet on Monday that specializes in bearded dragons and has good reviews. I just hope he'll make it that long and that I didn't make the wrong decision... :(
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
What a horrible experience I am so sorry- did you use the website I posted? I tell you the vets or so called vets are so frustrating- I get so annoyed w/ some of the treatment given- I hope you have better luck w/ the one Monday please PM Tracie click on her username drache613 her profile will come up look on left and click on PM
Karrie
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh good grief, I am so sorry to hear about your awful experience. It is seemingly just about
impossible to find a good reptile vet anymore. They are too overzealous about recommending
euthanising without cause or without even trying. They are incorrect with regards to testing for
adeno. It is very easily done via PCR antimortem! If you decide that you would like to test, you
can sign up on my adeno website at:

www.thepats.info

The test is only $21, too. Be sure to include your mailing address too so that I know where to
send your swab & form to.
It is safe to use the diluted betadine, directly on his mouth to clean it. Just use a swab gently,
to apply it then you can add the honey to the regime, once you get that.
That particular calcium to phosphorus ratio is not bad. You could add a small pinch extra a
couple of times per week, in addition to that to be sure he is getting enough. Are you using a
straight calcium supplement for him too?
It is difficult to know what to do, but I am like you, I would also at least give him a chance. You
haven't had him for very long so let him try to build up his immune system & fully settle in. Are
you keeping him a little warmer overnight too in his tank?

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie
 

BlueTheBeardie

Member
Original Poster
I regret to inform that Blue has passed away. :( After getting him home we gave him a little of the of the EmerAID Care mix from the vet and he had a normal looking bowel movement but was still lethargic and wouldn't really open his eyes.

The following day shortly after turning on his basking light, he started twitching (seizure?). He then opened his mouth and vomited up a white/yellow foam as well what appeared to be an solid Calciworm from the previous day. We wiped away the foam from his mouth however he made a few more gagging motions and finally he laid his head down and stopped moving with his mouth gaped open. :(

Believe it or not Petco tried to give a hard time about the refund saying they never had a problem with their bearded dragons and because we went to the vet before "informing them" the dragon was sick there was nothing they could do. Ultimately they did give a refund but the first thing I'm worried about is getting the dragon care and not complaining to Petco.

I have him in a cold container and am considering having a Necropsy done to determine the actual cause of death. His lower abdomen looks bloated/bubbly. Are necropsies common with bearded dragons and where would we have one done?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 4
Yes and I am so sorry to hear- he tried to hang on for as long as he could and you did your best-- poor little guy :(
Karrie
 

loljelloclowdz

Juvie Member
I’m sorry but I’m about to go ape. I hate breeding mills so much, they cause so many innocent beings to suffer every second. If responsible breeding measures were taken, that poor little beardie wouldn’t have been born to suffer. People who exploit animals to make money make me sick. Corporations have zero business in mass breeding and selling animals and I mean that. None of this was your fault, you got scammed both monetarily and emotionally by big businesses hoping you’ll return to replace the animal and spend more money at their store. I suggest getting a beardie from a well reputable breeder next time as even though it’s a bit more expensive you are guaranteed a beardie who wasn’t treated poorly or mixed with contagious reptiles. I’d absolutely drench the heck out of the setup with bleach (get rid of any porous structures, those are fairly cheap to replace.) before you put anything in there. Don’t let adv into the environment: it can affect local reptiles if you have anoles living outside.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am so sorry that you lost Blue, I know how devastating that is. :cry: This is definitely not
your fault but I know that wont take pain away.
They routinely do necropsies on reptiles, yes. That might help you to get some type of
closure.
He was a well loved, sweet dragon.

Tracie
 
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