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Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:01 am
by JLynn87
My fella just came out of brumation yesterday, he started end of June. Before he started brumating, the vet gave him a clean bill of health. His tail was already a bit crooked as I got him as a rescue but now it is even more crooked, his left arm it’s tucked under him it looks like he can’t support himself very well but he can climb, he’s spine seems like it may be off but it could also be from his positioning. I have called every vet in my town and within a few hundred miles and the earliest I can get him in is October 3. Being as he just woke up yesterday, he’s not really eating too much and I would like to get some calcium with D3 into him. I am ordering the liquid, but can I use the powder to make my own liquid until the shipment arrives? Also is there anything else I can do to support him? I have called every vet in my town and within a few hundred miles and the earliest I can get him in is October 3.I use ReptiSun T5 10.0 tubes with a reflector, it is placed on top of his mesh screen and he can get within 8 inches. Temps range from upper nineties to 101. His cool area is in the 80s. I will take a picture of him and his set up. I typically feed him a wide variety of vegetables, dubias and hornworms. He drinks water willingly from a spray bottle.

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Thanks in advanced,
Jackie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:04 pm
by KarrieRee
The screen is a fine mesh like a screen door or wide holed like a dime or similar to it? The calcium I am not sure one of the others on here w/ more experience w/ the calcium is going to need to answer that one --
Karrie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:09 pm
by Cuttlefishh
Hello, I'm not sure about MBD progression during brumation, I would perhaps opt for calcium WITHOUT D3 though as they can vitamin overdose on the d3. Daily calcium w/o D3 is safer way to go and just keeping the D3 to a few times a week, as long as hes active/alert/eating then I think he will be okay- just make sure the bulb is also fresh just in case :)

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:34 pm
by JLynn87
Thank you both. The screen has small holes like many other terrariums.

This is my first time experiencing brumation, I’ve been a beardie mama for 3 yrs so I’m not sure what is “normal”. He has not ever tested on his arm like that before, I read resting on limbs in this was and tail deforming is a sign of progressing MBD so I sorta freaked out. I will get calcium without D3 today. His lights are about 2-3 months old, I change them twice a yr.

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:45 pm
by KarrieRee
With the fine screen hes not getting enough UVB please get it into the tank w/ a distance of 12-15 inches directly above basking decor piece --- I would continue w/ the D3 since we are suspecting MBD I am going to have someone else look and see if they think it MBD as well but that is what I am thinking
Karrie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:26 pm
by Drache613
Hello,

He sure is a little cutie!
So often this happens, when they are in brumation, they can develop nutritional issues.
A good liquid calcium should help him get his levels up pretty quickly.
It may not be full blown metabolic bone disease but low calcium levels which will lead to
metabolic bone disease if not stopped.
The T5 Reptisun 10 is a great light but the screen has been blocking some of the UVB so
it would be good to try & see if you can mount it underneath of the screen. Can you lower
the basking spot some so he doesn't get too close?
You can add some calcium powder to some water or juice for him until your liquid arrives.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:57 pm
by JLynn87
I put the UVB inside for a few days and it caused him a lot of stress. I cannot get enough distance with a high output light. I put it back on top of his screen and will order a T8 so I can mount inside. Meanwhile, he is doing just fine and running around like a madman on a mission. He’s no longer resting on his arm.

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:24 pm
by KarrieRee
Did you lower you basking piece decor? If you can get a lower piece so he's 12 inches or up to 15 that would be good
Karrie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:39 pm
by JLynn87
I lowered his hammock, but he loves his rock and branch. He would get on one and turn black beard then glass surf. I removed rock and branch and he glass surfed. Once I replaced everything to the way it was, he has happily basked.

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 3:55 pm
by KarrieRee
What about that log in the middle of tank can you put that under the UVB in the tank? What would be the distance from that? Leave his rock he likes just move your decor around after you get the UVB situated- it's always easier to move decor than the UVB
Karrie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:56 pm
by Drache613
Hello,

How is your boy doing today? Were you able to order a new light so you can place it inside
of the tank?
You could also cut a hole in the screen to allow the UVB through a little better since you are
using a T5 high output tube for him. I can understand him being too close & it stressing him.
So he is not favoring his arm as much today?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:43 am
by JLynn87
Sorry for taking so long to reply, I was having trouble with the site in my phone!

So here’s the update, I put the UVB on the right side inside his tank and was able to lower the Hamic so there is around 10 inches or so. I have a T8 ordered for the other side so it can go inside as well.

He had a vet visit and was told he very healthy. Fecal sample and X-ray was negative. The vet said his tail may be slightly more crooked due to growth and history of being malnourished. His bones are not to spongy or brittle.

He is still eating, drinking, running around and pooping regularly. I do have one last question, he had a bowel movement today and it looked different than usual. I am wondering if I am dusting his food a little too much or maybe not offering enough for hydration. See image below. He is not acting unusual and it did not have a strong odor.

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Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:41 pm
by AHBD
Hi Jackie, glad to hear the good report from the vet, it sounds like Mufasa is doing well. :) That poo looks fine, did he eat something that color, like squash ? That would cause the color . The urate is still nice + white. I personally keep calcium with as well as without D3 on hand and use the D3 once a week lightly for my 2 adult dragons, the other 2 days I use regular calcium. These guys spend at least 15 -20 hours a week in the sun but I still give a small amount of D3. As babies they got a little more.

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:46 pm
by JLynn87
Thank you! I completely forgot I was giving him butternut squash this past week! I’ve changed his calcium to one without D3 😊

Re: Suspecting MBD

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:54 pm
by AHBD
Yes I saw that you changed to a non D3 calcium supplement but I think that it's best to have both on hand rather than to never use any.