Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:42 am

I appreciate the feedback on the bloodwork. This has been an agonizing journey to understand a species I am so unqualified to care for. I’m so confused why a reptile vet would tell me his blood was “toxic” and indicated a massive bacterial infection when no one else sees those indicators. But we will forge ahead!

Kronk is the same: We are going on three months of not eating on his own and he continues to hide all day. We are trying to force feed only every third day with BSFL, dubias, squash and greens. He doesn’t love it but he’s not going black anymore and seems to eat very normally once it’s in his mouth. And we bathe him every other day in case he wants water. Weight is stable at 230g.

If he is brumating, which seems unusual for his age and time of year, is it cruel to force feed him? And how long can I expect that behavior?
Thank you!
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby AHBD » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:01 am

You're doing the best you can in this situation and it will just take time . I would reduce the baths to no more than once a week and do the feedings every few days unless he starts losing weight. I think he'll bounce back in the next few weeks, even a bit longer but he's been through a lot. He may do a semi brumation , sort of what he's trying to do now.
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby loljelloclowdz » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:58 pm

Trick him into eating veggies with the following methods:
- Cut up some collards or cilantro or arugula and stuff it into the blueberry. You might need a little spoon thingy that we use in chemistry lab (it’s super tiny but metal and looks like an ice cream scooper) and scoop out some of the blueberry so it is hollow enough to stuff with veggies.
- Feed the feeder insects veggies
- squeeze blueberry juice on the veggies so they smell like blueberries.
- Bee pollen on the veggies
- Rephashy grub pie (loaded with vegetables, not a good staple feeder, but smearing the gel over veggies might make them appetizing.
- wrap BSFL in veggie leaves like little tiny sushi rolls
- cut the veggies smaller
- don’t mix salads together, but keep everything isolated.
- try different colored dishes
- Try putting potted cilantro and other safe plants in there - he may have the natural instinct to only consume straight from the plant. (You will need to get a growing light so it doesn’t wilt. I learned the hard way and ended up with a pathetic looking plant in under a week.)
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Drache613 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:06 pm

Hello,

Any updates for us yet? I hope that he is doing better. It is challenging when they just wont
eat! I agree with AHBD, he should hopefully get his appetite back here real soon. They can
slow down for seasonal reasons for varying amounts of time.
Do you have recent pictures of him?

Tracie
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:36 am

Thank you for the advice on encouraging greens consumption and for continued checkups on Kronk. He continues his hunger strike and remains inactive. We force feed about 10 BSFL, a few large meal worms and an occasional dubia every 4 days but I do wonder if we should stop that now. If I knew what I was talking about, I’d agree that he’s now brumating. He instantly goes under his perch, which resides directly under his vapor bulb, and lays there day and night. Sometimes eyes closed, sometimes just droopy. He also seems irritable when touched. I’m weighing him every couple of days and he’s about 226g. (How much is too much weight loss?) The most I’ve had him weight is 232g. I also still try to give him a bath 2x a week. I’d like him to poop; he hasn’t done that for probably 10 days. I know he hasn’t eaten much but I’d feel better stopping my force feeds and leaving him alone if his bowels were empty.

If this is now brumation, how dangerous is that considering how poor his condition and size are? How long do I let it go on? When do I worry? And is there anything different I should be doing for him (less light)?

Again, thank you!
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:55 am

@Drache613
@KarrieRee
@Claudiusx
@AHBD

Hi all, I need advice again. Kronk is still alive. I took the advice that he was brumating and stopped force feeding him in late September. He has not eaten since. He has been inactive and disinterested in food and most contact these past 3 months. In late October he pooped and oddly pooped again about a week ago even though he hasn’t eaten since September. We’ve been trying to force basking for the past 2 weeks. And unfortunately that led to him jumping out of his enclosure and landing 2 feet down.

Two questions: 1. Could he be hurt from the fall? 2. Is it time to start force feeding again?

Please remember, he hasn’t eaten on his own since June. He’s lost 10g since brumating so he’s at 220g at 15 months old.
Thanks!
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:30 pm

Are you keeping him hydrated ? What did the urate look like last poop? Thats gonna tell you if he is dehydrated- is he black bearding after the fall? What is his behavior is he moving around after the fall?
Thats not alot of weight to lose --- and hes been brumating since Sept -- I would get him in to the vet for a check up -- even tho hes not losing weight or a lot but hes not basking either
Please go over the UVB set up brand and bulb how old is it and where in the tank is it? Lighting has everything to do w/ their behavior -- basking temps what are they and how are you taking them?
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:53 pm

Yes, hydrating once a week in a bath; he drinks each time. Urate was a bit orange, and has been for as long as I can recall. In fact, it looked like he had bits of the calcium sand we used to keep him in his urate. We took him out of that substrate after the first vet visit as she said it was bad for him.

He has not acted differently since the fall and moves around just fine. From the advice given here, in August we added a Reptisun T8 18 in. mounted inside his enclosure with a perch 6 inches underneath. He also always had a ExoTerra 125W mercury bulb (was replaced in Sept. due to malfunction under warranty). Breeder told us that was all we needed and it sat on his screen until we got advice to do otherwise from this group (also changed in early August). Honestly, I think not having the extra UVB 18in.and putting the MVB on the screen is probably what started us down this whole rabbit hole in the first place. Poor thing!

Basking spot is about 100 (under MVB). Coldest spot is 77. Heating unit comes on at night since it's cool in the room at night now. I use a temp gun to check temps. We've kept the lights on a timer since the beginning of December for 12 hours a day. He was getting a few hours less than that while brumating from Oct-Dec.
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:13 pm

Are you still using the MVB? And if so what brand and wattage is it? I would get your 77 degrees up to 80 cool side of tank --- as for the 100 degrees basking spot he may not like it that hot-- as they get older they tend to like lower basking temps- see if you can get the temp down --you can get a piece of decor that would offer temp gradients a piece that would offer him to sit stand lay on or against w/ different temp ranges -- if the only temp he has is 100 degrees that could be why hes not basking - is he sitting off to the side of that decor piece? this is all trial and error to find out why hes not basking and eating --- I guess if it was me I would change out the whole lighting set up - I would go w/ a 24" fixture w/ a T 5 Arcadia bulb or a Reptisun 10.0 and ditch the MVB all together and get a bright white basking bulb -- its not like your going to hurt him w/ that set up -- his behavior and health rely on those things all you can do is try and if what your using now is not working --- its time to do something else -- hes not losing a lot of weight so that is good you can try some of the suggestions I mentioned first see that does anything then try the lighting set up and if hes still acting the same way then I would go for the vet visit -- you dont have a plastic cover over the UVB bulb do you? It is off correct?
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:25 pm

Yes, no cover on the UVB. I can try raising the MVB higher to get the basking spot cooler to see if that helps him bask. Thanks.
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby KarrieRee » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:36 pm

Like I said this is all trial and error- things will haft to be ruled out
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:24 am

Hi all,
Believe it or not, Kronk survived 9 months of not eating on his own. He finally emerged from 3 months of brumation and began eating superworms in February 2021. It remained the only thing he would eat, minus a Dubia here and there and minor force feeds of greens.
Unfortunately, he has stopped eating again. I know his lighting is correct this time and bulbs have not expired. So at first I wondered if he was struggling due to the unbalanced diet. Then it dawned on me that this was the exact time last year that he got sick. Could his tank be getting too warm due to summer heat in the room he’s kept on the second floor? During the day it looks like his cold side is around 83. In the winter, it’s in the low 70s. He stopped basking about 10 days ago, and stopped eating about a week ago. Should I move his whole tank into our basement where the temps stay lower during the day?
Appreciate any advice!
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:31 am

As long as your keeping an eye on those temps and they are in spect basking area 95-100 middle of tank 90's and cool side no lower than 80 during the day--- anything lower is going to send him into a brumation type behavior--- nite time is fine they like it cool and dark -- is the basement dark and dreary? Is there people down there? If there is no activity down there and it is dark I would move him to where hes getting some sunlight or a cheery room -- Is he on the floor? There is a issue going on w/ him not eating ---- has he been tested for parasites / worms? Is his poop when he poops real runny and stink so bad it makes you want to leave the room?
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby Kronk212 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:38 am

He has not pooped for about a week or so. Last poop was large and normal. I did not recall a bad smell. He definitely had parasites last summer because the poop smell was awful, so I will recognize that as a sign moving forward. I have him in a bath right now and can't get him to drink any water.

Basement would not be dark and dreary, but there would definitely be less traffic. He's currently in my son's bedroom, up on a dresser and near a window. We bought him a new 90-gallon tank but are now afraid to move him since he seems sick. I don't want to adjust lighting and temps when he seems to already be vulnerable.
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Re: Juvenile hasn't eaten on own since June!

Postby KarrieRee » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:52 am

I would move him so you can watch him --- does your son spend time in his room w/ him? They are a social creature and activity would be good for him - can you take pics of the tank and him please
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ click on the XIMG at the top of the message box then click on the pic it should post -- are you using any colored bulbs in the tank? Any lights in the room that your son is keeping on all nite long? Are you keeping track of his weight? Has he lost any weight? His poops will tell you if hes dehydrated --- the urate will be dry and chalky--- but you would need to catch it right after he poops so you know ---
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