MBD Info

Sorry if this is long...

Care info: 40 gal breeder tank, reptisun t8 mounted under screen, basking spot: 98-105, cool side 75-78 f.

Our beardie, ViVi, went into what I assumed was a partial brumation several months ago. She would nap and hang out in her hide mostly, but would come out and bask and eat. This went on for probably a few weeks.

After that she went back to normal for a week or two, and then just dramatically went down hill. Stopped eating almost entirely, would only eat an occassional bug, no greens. Was very lethargic and just wasn't doing anything. I thought maybe her UVB wasn't sufficient so I bought a new bulb and swapped it. I went to our local reptile shop and bought some different feeders thinking she may be bored with her crickets/mealworms/bsfl. She ate a hornworm here and there but thats it. So of course, now I'm worried and fully aware something is wrong. I was bathing her daily cause she has never drank water either from a bowl or in the bath. I noticed after 5-10 minutes in the bath she would start twitching one of her legs and sort of spazzing. And I noticed her front legs seemed a little swollen.

Took her to the vet on 4-28, vet said that she has early MBD he thinks, and possibly parasites. We adopted her last November from our local reptile shop, they estimated at that time that she was 1-1.5 years old. So we have no idea about her care from her original owner. I didn't have a stool sample since she hasn't been eating, but he gave her a general dewormer and sent us home with liquid calcium.

The first few days after the vet, she seemed a little more active and alert and was eating a bit better. Then she just started getting progressively worse again. She basks, but she basically just looks asleep all day. She'll go into her hide, and back to her basking spot but that's it. She keeps her eyes closed 80% of the time. I legitimately thought she was on deaths door the night before last. I have given her her calcium every day since the vet, I've been syringe feeding her baby food squash, and green beans with a bit of apple. She eats a little bit, but not alot.

So I called the vet yesterday and explained the situation, he basically just said that it could take up to 6 months to see improvement from the MBD. Is this accurate? Her only real symptom was the twitching, she doesn't have any visible deformities.

I do still need to take a stool sample for a fecal, I'm waiting for her to go so I can do that. I'm just at a loss here. I don't know if thats all thats going on, or if there's more I can do. I've never owned a reptile, so I'm a fish out of water with this. I believe her husbandry is correct based on my own research when we got her. She is my teenage sons pet, but of course we all know how that goes and I am the one taking care of this. I do fully intend on getting her a bigger tank, but with her being ill, and then the pandemic I've held off on that for the time being. If anyone can offer me some insight or advice I would really appreciate it.

At the vets office did they take an Xray to see what the calcium level was ? Next the UVB does it have a cover over the fixture? I know you said its inside the tank --- is it approx 8-10 inches from basking decor -- can she sit directly under it? How old was the bulb before you changed it out? 6 months life on those bulbs--- for T 8-- T 5's a year -- a stool sample into the vet for testing is a good idea -- that would be a cause for the not eating and dehydration as well -- unless the UVB is not mounted properly and fixture cover is on the new UVB should of perked her up unless its something else ---
Karrie

They didnt do any testing, he just said that he could see the twitching and that it's likely MBD.

The T8 has a reflector. She can sit directly under it as well as the basking light. Yes, it's the correct distance. The bulb was only like 3 months old when I changed it, but I started getting paranoid that it could have been a returned bulb or something.

Let me attempt to figure out how to post a pic.

Ok good that it has a reflector but is the plastic cover over the bulb -- if it is take it off -- you want the bulb exposed for full effect of rays--- yes I would say she needs a tank upgrade --- I would downsize the dish for a smaller one giving more floor space -- not sure about length of time on the MBD but the UVB should make an improvement as long as your getting the full effect of the UVB -- distance looks good for UVB what are the basking temps? And are you taking them w/ a digital probe thermometer? The UVB should make a difference in her eating as well --- but if she has parasites going on that will effect the eating
Karrie

Basking temps are 98-105 taken with digital probe gun thing.

There's a plastic cover on the top and sides of the light, but not on the bulb itself. Let me take a pic and you can tell me if its good or if I need to change it.

Ok so that is good --- now I am perplexed on the slight MBD unless she had it before you got her - have you or she had any other type of UVB besides this one being used now ? say a different brand of UVB or maybe a coil at one time ? Some more experienced on here would haft to answer about the recovery of the MBD I know they dont recover completely but good UVB and calcium in the diet will prevent it from getting worse --- the basking temps are good as well --- I am going to have AHBD look and she can answer the questions about the MBD
Karrie

Yes when we first got her we had a coil bulb, I changed it out in December to the one she has now. So she had it maybe 2 months with us. I don't know what lighting she had prior to that.

I guess my biggest immediate concern is she still isn't interested in eating. She doesn't even want any bugs. But after the vet said 6 months, I guess it was just shocking. 6 months to have a good appetite again? She was fine one day and the next not interested in food. She was losing weight, but since I've been syringe feeding her baby food her weight has stayed about the same.

I'm definitely taking a stool sample as soon as she poops.

Since the MBD is only slight I can guess she started to develop it during the time she had the coil for two months-- so it is good you changed it out then -- any longer and she would of been sicker -- she may have contracted the parasites at that time as well and it is now effecting the appetite -- but I dont know for sure til you get the fecal back --- the new UVB has prevented the MBD from getting worse --- so I am guessing its something else causing the lack of appetite and losing weight -- and the first rule of thumb is checking for parasites then if thats not it blood work should be done for maybe an infection and did you say one leg was swollen as well????? That could be a sign of gout - does she flinch when you touch it? Lets see what AHBD says I have flagged this post to her
Karrie

No, she doesn't really flinch when you touch it. She doesn't seem to mind it being messed with at all. She flinches ocassionally when I reach in to pet her, but it seems more like she's either surprised or irritated I'm touching her. And it's her head that flinches when that happens, not the leg. It's her front leg and the vet said it could be related to the MBD. It's odd because it's only the leg itself, not her foot.

I suppose it could be I had to ask swollen feet and limbs will get swollen if its gout --- some worse than others so its good if shes not flinching --- gout is very painful believe me I know I am diabetic and I have had gout -- ok well I am hoping AHBD responds here soon -- she is on and off at different times of the day -Tracie our vet moderator may weigh in on this as well -- if you have any lab reports that are done please get copies of them and you can post them Tracie is real good at reading xrays and lab reports and she can give her opinion as well -- and if meds are prescribed post those as well some are better than others ---
Karrie

I'll definitely make sure I post any labs the vet has done. And keep an eye out for more info on MBD.

Can you give me an idea of how much I should be trying to get her to eat when I syringe feed her? She makes an enormous mess everytime I feed her, so I've just been filing the syringe up and letting her lick it off her nose. This of course wastes a bunch of the food, but I figured it was less stressful for her than physically force feeding it to her like I have to do her liquid calcium. But again, I'm not really sure how much food their stomachs hold. I was feeding her once a day, but today I did it 3 different times and each time she ate a bit.

Instead of the syringe try a spoon see if she will lick it off the spoon - feed her till she stops -- they usually will stop if they are full --- normally-- we do have some that wont and will keep eating -- try that - other than that hopefully AHBD can answer that question
Karrie

I'll definitely try that tomorrow. Thanks so much for your help Karrie ?