Help please - mystery illness

Hey!
We’ve had our beardie for about 6 months. Bought from a local pet store as a baby. He is 14.5inches long and about 334 grams now.

Recently his back right leg started to swell and we thought it was due to a shed that hadn’t properly come off however this then came off fine and shortly after (in the next couple of days) all four of his legs swelled up. The back legs seem okay but his back feet have gone huge. He also has a lump on his front left hand.

We have taken him to see a reptile specialist who took an X-ray and a blood test, confirmed the results with 3 other specialists and came back to advise that there was no MBD or Gout present and so he believed it to be a possible infection.

He prescribed metacam as an anti inflammatory and baytril as an antibiotic to be given orally everyday for three weeks. We are now two and a half weeks in and the swelling hasn’t at all subsided (some days it even looks worse)

He is putting weight on all four legs, catching bugs, climbing onto his rocks and appears normal, if anything maybe a bit more lethargic than usual.

We are calling the vet again tomorrow to update them on the situation but I was wondering if anyone on here has experienced anything similar?

He lives in a 4ft vic with a reptile uvb200 (from the U.K.) his basking area is about 100f and his cool side about 80. Goes down to about 65 at night. He eats about 10 locusts a day, some Dubia roaches and has a couple of wax worms occasionally as a treat.

I am no vet but it looks like gout---- if your going to the vet you need to have blood work done and tested for gout--- in the mean time I would lay off the protein and feed greens (salads) is he eating greens? The next thing is the UVB is a coil? correct? I would get rid of that and invest in this
a 24" fixture w/ reflector --- I am assuming hes in a tank that is of 40 gallons or bigger ? I would get a Arcadia 12% bulb they are one the best on the market besides the Reptisun 10.0 T 5 or T 8's -- coil UVB's are no good ---- here is some info for you on UVB's
Which UVB light should I use?
The best UVB light is a ReptiSun 10.0 fluorescent tube HO (Or Arcardia 12% in the UK). Compact or coil bulbs do not emit the proper amount of UVB light for a bearded dragon, and should not be used. Other brands, such as the Zilla Desert Series and ReptiGlo have been known to cause eye problems and other health issues with bearded dragons, and should be avoided. The reason that some UVB lights (Zilla, ReptiGlo, coils/compacts, ect.) are considered dangerous is because the wavelength of UVB that they emit is shorter and more intense than the wavelength of the "safe" lights (ReptiSun, Arcadia). UVB lights should be replaced every 6 months. The T5’s are a strong bulb and only need to be replaced once a year – the T 8 every 6 months--- where as the T 8 are not as strong—they need to be placed inside the tank the T 5 10.0 bulb approx 12-15 inches from basking spot – the T 8 approx 8-10 inches from basking spot—the cover needs to be off the bulb for full effect of the UVB rays--
Too much protein causes gout --- some others on here can look at this but to me it looks like gout-- when you touch his legs etc does he flinch or pull away -- it is very painful ---
Karrie

Thanks Karrie.

We suspected gout to however the vet did a blood test and came back to advise that the test showed it wasn’t gout.

He has a uvb tube, not a bulb, that was changed about 1 month ago. He’s about 12inches away from it and it has a reflector on it also.

Further to my last reply it’s also not at all painful for him. He lets you move his legs and squeeze his feet. He walks fine and puts normal weight on all four feet.

Ok well Tracie or AHBD is gonna haft to weigh in on this one ---- what did the vet test for and what did they think it was ? What substrate do you have him on? Infection would cause that I am thinking as well - but nothing came back from the blood work w/ infection showing ? This is odd --- I agree --- and w / him eating and doing everything normal is even stranger and more frustrating ----
Karrie

Yes, very frustrating!

The vet did an X-ray and confirmed no MBD. The vet did suspect a tiny micro-fracture on his front foot which would explain the lump.

We asked whether it was gout due to all four legs being swollen and after ready all the posts on here and we were super worried. The vet said it was very unlikely to be gout due to him only being about 8-9 months old. We requested that a blood test be done anyway.

The blood test came back and the vet said all his levels were normal so no sign of gout, just that he was a little dehydrated but that may have been due to the stress of the car journey etc.

The vet believes it to be an infection and has given a three week course of baytril antibiotics - 0.15ml daily. This has had no effect and his feet seem to have gotten worse. However he is still 100% normal in himself and walking around, climbing etc.

Where did you get him from? Was it a private breeder? If so have you contacted them to see if any of the other hatchlings from that batch are having the same issues ? Maybe a genetic issue ? Something is causing it that is for sure --- and if the antibiotics are having no effect then most likely it is not an infection -- well I would PM Tracie Drache613 and ask her and if you have the blood work I would post it and see what she thinks --- shes the vet moderator --- you can get her input on what she might think it is
Karrie

It was a pet store - we’ve spoken to them and they didn’t seem to know.

We thought maybe a genetic issue since the vet had never seemed to have seen this before and ruled out MBd and gout :/

I’ve pm’d tracie, thank you for your help!

I agree that it's a good idea to have Tracie look at the blood tests. If I'm correct the way gout is detected is by drawing fluid from the affected area to look for crystals. And young dragons CAN develop gout if they are fast growing big eaters on high protein diet like dubia roaches. If the roaches themselves are fed protein they can develop high levels of uric acid that can pass on to the beardie. I've seen Tracie post about pseudo-gout as well, a type of arthritis/inflammation.

Hello,

Please do post the blood test results. There really isn't much of anything else it could be
other than gout, or at the very least renal issues. So all 4 feet/hands are swollen? This
just happened suddenly or has it slowly developed?
For now, I would completely remove the dubias from his diet altogether until this is figured
out. They are too high in uric acid/protein so if he does have renal issues they will affect
him. Try to keep him on a low to moderate protein diet, limiting him to no more than 20 insects
per week right now. Focus on vegetation & fluids right now.
What supplementation are you giving him?
The swelling has gotten worse with placing him on antibiotics? Which one is he on?

Tracie

Thank you for coming back to me.

He’s on Baytril, 0.15ml everyday orally. We haven’t been given a copy of the blood test results unfortunately however the vet checked them and advised that it is not gout but rather thinks it may be an infection, hence the antibiotics.

He has calcium powder on his bugs and a calcium/d3 supplement about once a week.

His two back feet are swollen, the left significantly worse than the right. His right front arm is swollen, but the foot is fine and then the left hand is swollen which the vet put down to a micro fracture.

It happened within a couple of days and as mentioned he isn’t in pain/uncomfortable on them at all. They are also very squishy rather than hard.

Hello,

I really hope you can get a copy of the blood test though, because they can miss things on
the blood test. Did they determine gout simply by x-rays, etc or by looking at the blood physically
or from uric acid levels on the blood test?
Is the swelling worse since he was put on the Baytril?
Please keep him hydrated while on the meds. I really don't think he has an infection but not sure
why the swelling is that big.
He needs the calcium several times per week though. Sorry, I just noticed you PM'd me so I will
take a look at that also & get back with you soon.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

Thank you for coming back to me.

Yes, vet looked at the X-ray and blood test and advised unlikely gout as he has normal iron acid levels. He thinks his protein was high as he was dehydrated.

As the antibiotics have not worked and possibly made him worse he is going to try him on gout medicine and black cherry extract this week.

He is still very happy and normal in himself, eating as usual etc. We are ensuring we keep him as hydrated as possible as he’s never been very good at hydrating himself haha!

Thank you, please let me know once you’ve checked him blood results.

Hello,

I did PM you also. How is he doing today, he liked his black/tart cherry juice? It IS
definitely tart though. LOL
I did review the blood tests. The uric acid levels are on the upper echelon levels which is
most likely a huge contributing factor. If he does not have visceral/full blown gout then he
does have some type of renal issues going on for that type of swelling to be happening to
him like this.
The other levels were not bad but a few values were a little off. You are positive he is male
& not a female, correct?

Tracie

Thank you.

Yes, as far as we know he is a male. The pet store believed he was and the vet didn’t disagree.

Yes he loved his black cherry juice haha, do you think that if it is renal issues keeping him super hydrated will help a lot?