Stomach tumor... GNT??

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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 12:52 am

Drache613 wrote:Hello,

Poor Taro, that is quite an incision she has! I would be careful with getting some gauge
but you can gently clean the incision with diluted betadine. Did the vet give any type of
ointment to put on the incision at all?
That is great news her fluids in her tummy are gone. They said there are still residual
abscess material present which is why they put her on antibiotics?
The anti-inflammatory, meloxicam is hard on them, yes. I wouldn't recommend keeping
her on that long term though, it is hard on their system.
The amount of medications is quite a bit. She is being properly dosed for her weight, right?
How long do they want her on the antibiotics?
Be sure to give her probiotics right now, to be sure her system recovers from the antibiotic
therapy.
That particular food supplement should be fine, does she like it? She is shedding which makes
it more stressful overall for her.
Is her beard normal color?
She sure has been through a lot so I hope she continues to recover. Let us know how she is
doing!

Tracie


Hi Tracie, thanks so much for your patience with my at times long-winded updates,

Her beard is a normal color, she's just a lot more lethargic today and seems very flat and generally unwell, there are also times i can see shes a lot more uncomfortable.

Vet did not recommend anything for the incision. And yeah- when the surgery was very first done some of the abcessed material remained because it was close to a dangerous vessel, so it would have been impossible at that time to remove the entirety of it without more equipment and actually removing a portion of the intestine itself. She said if she tried to remove it all Taro would have not woken up. She said she would only have to potentially reopen taro in the future if the biopsy was positive for cancer. She says because it was negative, she doesn't need to do any more surgery and we can treat the remaining tissue with meds.

I would hope she's dosing for her weight. I do press them with questions a lot. On beautiful dragons though the dose of the flagyl does seem to match with her weight but twice a day. I'm not sure if its excessive or not given the stubborn chronic infection we have been dealing with.

She wants her to continue with the antibiotics for 4 weeks. I'm due to have her rechecked over phone in one week.

Edit; forgot to mention! She's getting the probiotic daily in the morning. She tolerated the feed but not sure if she likes it. It's definitely not blueberries hah
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 2:37 am

I found her this evening like this an hour or so after her medicine and i put her to bed. Shes completely upright. I'm not sure if im just being paranoid but her eyes look more sunken in??

I'm really concerned. Is this normal???? Is she having a bad reaction to the meds??? Beard still normal color

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Please help, her usual vet is not back until Wednesday and I'm not confident i can fully trust the alternating one because she was somewhat pressuring the idea for euthanasia too early. I'm so worried please help
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby AHBD » Sat May 09, 2020 3:56 am

She does look distressed there. What meds. are she on ?
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 4:43 am

AHBD wrote:She does look distressed there. What meds. are she on ?


Hi abhd

She's on:
Protexin (probiotic) 0.25ml daily morning
nystatin 0.25ml daily morning
Dulpha milk 0.2ml daily morning
"20 of flagyl" 0.3ml twice a day
"16 of Enrotril" 0.15ml daily in the evening

I brought her to the tap to drizzle some water over her snout and she drank a lot- shes also in shed at the moment but she keeps her head up I'm really worried
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby AHBD » Sat May 09, 2020 5:08 am

I don't know, she's been on antibiotics for so long now ever since her mouth procedure. I'm sure they are making her feel very ill . I'm wondering if those should be discontinued. Even with many types of major surgery in humans there is a limited amount of antibiotics given. Another thing is that after she had the large bowel movement it may have been a little bit painful, adding to her discomfort. That's just a possibility but I think the main culprit is the drugs. BTW, is she breathing heavy at all or gasping ? And would she be interested in insects if you offered them to her ? Smaller or freshly shed [ easy to digest ]
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 5:24 am

AHBD wrote:I don't know, she's been on antibiotics for so long now ever since her mouth procedure. I'm sure they are making her feel very ill . I'm wondering if those should be discontinued. Even with many types of major surgery in humans there is a limited amount of antibiotics given. Another thing is that after she had the large bowel movement it may have been a little bit painful, adding to her discomfort. That's just a possibility but I think the main culprit is the drugs. BTW, is she breathing heavy at all or gasping ? And would she be interested in insects if you offered them to her ? Smaller or freshly shed [ easy to digest ]


I agree she has been on them a long time, i asked my vet to stop them 7 days after the mouth procedure and we did. She improved for about 3 weeks but then she became very poorly again and had mucous buildup- which lead to the outcome here and cycling back on them, the surgery showing abcess and infection buildup. I'm struggling so much right now because i dont know what to do. I feel the meds are making her more sick but then if i stop them what if the abcess or infection returns again or becomes resistant? It's so difficult.

She's not really gasping or heavy breathing, just generally flat or sleeping with her head upright. Vet also said she was in a bit of pain but possibly because i tried to reduce the meloxicam from what she recommended.

I feel so helpless and frustrated.

I haven't offered any normal insects yet, becaue I was advised against solids for at least 4 weeks. We were going to talk more after the recheck. The vet two days ago was reluctant to put her on two antibiotics but when we talked about the remaining abcess tissue she went on with it. I'm so angry because they will be closed tomorrow, i won't get any further advice from them until Monday.
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby AHBD » Sat May 09, 2020 5:45 am

Yeah, this would be soooo frustrating for you. It's not always clear what is causing what with reptiles and whether part of the " cure " is a new problem and outweighs the benefit. With any surgery, human or animal, there are so many potential risks but reptile medicine/surgery lags way behind in terms of success rates in diagnosing + treating issues because it's not as well researched + common as the mammals. Do what you think is best, at least she drank a lot which will help her kidneys to keep filtering out toxins. BTW, can you make some veggie + insect smoothies ? Those might be more nutritious and less work on her system than the dog food. The A/D diet is very questionable, high in fat + protein, possibly hard on the liver because the main ingredients are liver. Here's a paragraph from reptile expert Melissa Kaplan's website . Scroll down to the info in fact + fiction about the A/D diet.
http://www.anapsid.org/factfict.html
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 12:59 pm

AHBD wrote:Yeah, this would be soooo frustrating for you. It's not always clear what is causing what with reptiles and whether part of the " cure " is a new problem and outweighs the benefit. With any surgery, human or animal, there are so many potential risks but reptile medicine/surgery lags way behind in terms of success rates in diagnosing + treating issues because it's not as well researched + common as the mammals. Do what you think is best, at least she drank a lot which will help her kidneys to keep filtering out toxins. BTW, can you make some veggie + insect smoothies ? Those might be more nutritious and less work on her system than the dog food. The A/D diet is very questionable, high in fat + protein, possibly hard on the liver because the main ingredients are liver. Here's a paragraph from reptile expert Melissa Kaplan's website . Scroll down to the info in fact + fiction about the A/D diet.
http://www.anapsid.org/factfict.html


That's very informative about the a/d- I didn't realise it was high in fat. I may stop using the ad altogether and just do veggie + wombaroo and some insects,,

I want to give her a break from the antibiotics today entirely and call the vet tomorrow.. would it cause potential harm if i were to stop them for just one day?
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sat May 09, 2020 1:22 pm

She's looking a little better this morning. The extra water seems to have helped at least

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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby AHBD » Sat May 09, 2020 2:05 pm

The A/D is O.K for short term, it's good to get something substantial in to a sickly lizard but being as it's for 4 weeks I'd try the natural home made smoothie made of stuff that was in her original diet, including some good greens. Keeping her hydrated is really important so it's good that she is drinking, that's in her favor. :) I'm torn on the using antibiotics for 4 weeks too, but see if she responds better after at least a few days and if she doesn't completely lose her appetite. Since she's still eating , drinking and getting the probiotic just wait to hear from the vet about your concerns with the antibiotics.
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Drache613 » Sun May 10, 2020 12:35 am

Hello,

So she is doing a bit better this evening? That is a questionable situation, leaving her on so
many antibiotics right now. When will the vet get back with you?
Personally, I would do baby food or fresh food slurries, over the A/D canned food. I think it's
too high in fat & probably protein in my opinion. She doesn't need more stress on her liver.
Hydration is very important right now, so hopefully her body will start holding more. I am glad
to see her beard isn't dark though!

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sun May 10, 2020 2:02 am

thanks for the advice and encouragement from both of you- this has been very hard and long situation for taro so its really great that i can come here for the help

she was still upright a bit after i put her to bed; i ended up giving the meds except for the meloxicam because the dose on the bottle said stop after 10 days. shes been somewhat stable though i worry she might be a little bloated looking, but this could be because of the extra water given and shes puffing out for her shed a bit- shes rubbing a lot against whatever she can at the moment

she seems to have improved a little bit since ive offered the fluids; and she licks the syringe for the food as well instead of me having to force it so i suppose this is a good sign. Her beard is also normal color. She seems to sleep more comfortably if im holding her rather than her being in her enclosure. She still opens her mouth and is puffing out more though which has only started up more often again since the new medicine routine.

I decided ill call the vet tomorrow and get advice- if this is something i can expect or not. 4 weeks does seem like a long time to be on these meds really, but the last time i stopped the antibiotics too early it seemed to prompt the return of a chronic infection of some sort.. at least, thats what the diagnosis my vet gave me seems to imply.

what do you guys think of the wombaroo supplement? should i just give this + warm water and veggies? It supposedly has protein in it as well
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby AHBD » Sun May 10, 2020 5:45 am

Yes, the Wombaroo sounds like good stuff. Will you be making a smoothie with the veggies ? If I remember correctly the vet said that her intestine was narrowed due to infection or swelling or from something else I can't remember [ correct me if I'm wrong ] and aside from her wound it might be the reason that he wants her on all pureed type foods.
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sun May 10, 2020 12:16 pm

AHBD wrote:Yes, the Wombaroo sounds like good stuff. Will you be making a smoothie with the veggies ? If I remember correctly the vet said that her intestine was narrowed due to infection or swelling or from something else I can't remember [ correct me if I'm wrong ] and aside from her wound it might be the reason that he wants her on all pureed type foods.


Yes I'll make it with the veggies + wombaroo and maybe reduce the frequency of ad. I would make a batch and freeze the ad+wombaroo so i think ill just do the same with the veggies.

Yes so, taro had an abcess in her intestinal lining; the lining tissue thickened from the inflammation so she debulked it aa much as she safely could. Shes on soft diet to prevent issues while we treat the remaining infection.

Taro seems to be doing okay for now. I hope she hurries up Nd sheds though because that will be one less stress on her during all of this
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Re: Stomach tumor... GNT??

Postby Cuttlefishh » Sun May 10, 2020 5:15 pm

Here's some photos of her this morning she seems okay

https://imgur.com/a/ygLNdbN
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