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Possible ADV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 am
by bocaz0r
Hello guys,

I have purchased a baby bearded dragon last week from a pet store. He started acting very unusual over the past few days. At first he seemed active and with a big apetite, however, he started stargazing a few days in a row. I'm not sure if it's really ADV, but he stays with his head straight up for hours and hours. A few nights ago he didn't sleep at all. All he did was jump and twirl and keep his head upwards. We offered him a variety of meals, the only one he eats now are dubia roaches..
To give you a few details about my vivarium (I might be doing something wrong). I'm using a paper substrate, 4ft vivarium with a thermostat with a T8 uvb lamp. The basking area has an average temperature of around 40° Celsius, 35 in the middle, and 26-27 in the cold section. He has a 12 hour cycle on night and day.
I'm trying to feed him veggies but he is not interested. I would also like to mention he is 16 weeks old and is currently shedding.
Below is a picture of him sleeping the other night. (Same posture that he has during daytime)
Any advice will help. Thanks in advance.

[Click image to enlarge]

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:10 am
by AHBD
Hi there, sorry to see your pet in this condition. It is highly likely to be ADV, stargazing + neurological problems are 2 big signs of it. :( Still, there's a slight chance it's calcium related if your uvb is not close enough being a t8. What is the distance, can you post a picture showing the light placement ? The one positive thing is he's still eating. What size are the dubias ?

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:56 pm
by bocaz0r
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. To answer your questions, I am feeding him small dubias, between half a cm and 1 cm max, not bigger than the space between his eyes. We were thinking about calcium deficit, so we have a calcium + D3 powder that we cover the dubias before he eats. Also we got a liquid one that we were planning to feed him with a syringe. I will post some images with the light setup and The way we found him this morning.

Image
Image

http://www.ibb.co/chp0rVn
http://www.ibb.co/3Bg3VX8

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:58 am
by Drache613
Hello,

He definitely has some type of neurological problem, based on the pictures you have
posted.
I do recommend though, that the light be put into a light fixture so that the UVB will be
reflected directly downwards towards him. When it is mounted like that, it refracts in all
different directions & your dragon doesn't receive much of the benefits from it.
Which brand are you using?
The tank is beautiful though & he has a lot of space. Are you in the UK?
If you need to test for Adeno, let me know.

Tracie

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:09 am
by bocaz0r
Thanks for the reply. Yes we just bought a reflector for the uvb lamp. We didn't install it yet because beardie had too much stress, but we are planning to install it when he's a bit calmer. All the bulbs are Arcadia make.
The only reason the tank is empty is because we took a few taller things out. He was climbing on them and falling very bad, so we were concerned . We are in the UK yes, we actually took him to the pet store now because they will be able to do the test on him.
The people in the store also said it's unnatural and that it could possibly ADV.

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:23 am
by Drache613
Hello,

How is your dragon doing today?
Great, I would most definitely get that light reflector installed as soon as you can to help
increase the UVB output for him. Oh ok, that sounds good the pet store is able to do the
adeno test on him.
That was a good idea to remove all of the higher basking & climbing areas in his tank so
he is safer & can't fall or flip himself as easily.
Let us know how he is doing & what the test results yield.

Tracie

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:52 am
by bocaz0r
Hi,

Well, he is currently with the pet store. They said they will monitor him and if necessary they will bring the vet to check him out. Now, after 3 days the people from the store said he is not stargazing anymore and that he seems fine. I'm not sure what to do, we can bring him home I guess. We have installed the reflector and lowered the uvb lamp slightly. We will keep the higher decorations outside of the tank for now just until we can see there is no more problem with him.
Do you think that the substrate could have anything to do with his behaviors? Currently we have a sheet of baking paper but we also have some exo-terra desert sand waiting, however, after some research online, sand is not really recommended for baby dragons. What is your opinion on this? Thanks

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:30 pm
by Claudiusx
Hi there,

I wouldn't use the sand. It's good that you got the uvb situated. What is the distance it is now from bulb to basking surface? And bulb to floor?

Is he back in your care now?

-Brandon

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:17 am
by bocaz0r
Hi,

Unfortunately we had to leave him with the store as they agreed with us that there is something wrong with the little fella. I'm guessing they will do some further investigation on the matter. The store offered us the possibility to take another baby dragon. We are actually going today to pick a new one. During this week we disinfected the entire tank and items inside with f10cl to make sure there is no sign of the virus (if it was adv). The distance now from the bulb to the floor is around 20cm and between the uvb and lamp around 6-7cm. The reflector that we installed greatly boosted the uvb range and it looks way brighter. We will not use sand, we added a sheet of non stick baking paper again. Would you say this is all good now or would you recommend any further changes ?
Thanks

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:41 pm
by Claudiusx
Hi there,

Truth be told I wouldn't buy another baby from that store. ADV is extremely contagious, and chances are that if one dragon there has it, they all do.

However, the setup sounds fine. but, are you saying the uvb bulb is now only 6-7cm from the basking site, or are you saying it's that far from the heat bulb? What distance is it to the basking site?

-Brandon

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:39 pm
by Drache613
Hello,

That is too bad you ended up leaving him there, poor guy. I sure hope he makes it. Were
they going to get him all taken care of with the vet too?
The new UVB lighting should really help out your new one then, if it's that much brighter.
The non stick baking paper is fine, or you can also use paper towels, or non adhesive shelf
liner, too for very simple tank liner. I am glad you aren't going to be using sand though, it isn't
a good idea especially for the youngsters.

Let us know how your new one is doing.
Tracie

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:43 am
by bocaz0r
Hi, thanks for your answers. We made sure when we took the new one that the sick one never had contact, or he was never kept in that tank. We got a 19 week old female, which since infancy was kept with her sister in the same tank, therefore had no contact with any infected ones. She seems really fine, enjoying life, eating from out hand and enjoys being held. A major difference between them.
The uvb bulb shines over the basking area too, I meant its 6-7 cms from the actual bulb. The basking area is covered by both lights equally.

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:32 am
by Drache613
Hello,

I hope she is healthy for you. Feel free to post new pictures of her along with your tank
setup & lighting changes.
Is she eating well yet?

Tracie

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 5:10 am
by bocaz0r
Hello,

I will post some pictures when I'm at home. She was eating well the first day, however, I think she has a bit of stress now due to the relocation. She didn't eat this morning, but I'm not concerned as she is acting quite normal since day 1. She is sleeping good, ate some greens too. So far, so good. I'll post some pics later.

Re: Possible ADV

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:11 am
by bocaz0r
[Click image to enlarge]


We currently have this setup. The basking area is not directly under the heat lamp as it is quite low, however, when she is basking she gets direct light from both lamps, and the temperature won't exceed 41°. If you guys have some tips or some advice about the setup let me know. Thanks