Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

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Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:29 pm

I had posted a few months ago about my beardie with weird leg stuff and today we finally took him to the vet since proper husbandry has not fixed the issue. I went in expecting his leg issue to be genetic/not curable, but what I was not expecting was to hear he was in kidney failure and now be treating that. His kidney values are at 37, which the vet said is very severe and he could die any time. We were shocked because outside of his weird legs, even the vet initally thought he looked to be in great condition (alert, bright-eyed, good overall appearance). Now Toothless is at the vet receiving fluids overnight to see if that has any affect on his kidneys. I'm really quite surprised by all of this. He eats great, poop is normal, and is acting completely fine.

I suppose the reality is that he was sickly when we bought him (from Petco) and probably would've died much sooner. The vet thinks it's something he could've been dealing with all along, and I'm guessing it's likely due to poor commercial breeding practices.

As far as his leg issue, the vet confirmed that his strange, uncoordinated movements are likely some genetic issue, definitely not MBD, which I was glad to hear. Not really anything that can be treated, but I had a gut feeling that would be the case.

TBD how it all turns out. We will likely end up providing supportive care until he tells us it's time. Just sad for a little guy only about six months old.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby CooperDragon » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:46 pm

I'm glad the kidney issues were identified. Hopefully the extra hydration will help out. Did the vet recommend any other course of action to treat it? Perhaps a specific diet or addition to the diet will help alongside extra hydration.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:19 pm

Not yet. We're going to wait and see if this first action helps at all. The problem is that he's not really dehydrated now so she was guarded as to whether this would help. She did say we could look at some medications for the long term but nothing specific yet. I'd have to put him on a reduced protein diet which is possible but different from other cases as he's still very much in a growth phase. I imagine if he was on a primarily veggie diet now he might stay pretty small. Not that it matters, but I don't know what she's going to end up recommending since he's still a baby.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:34 pm

Hi there,

Could you post the blood test results?

37 what? Because if it's to the scale/measurement I'm used to, that's not really that high. If anything it's just barely above average. But like I said, the vet might be using a different measurement.

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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:48 pm

Hi Brandon, I don't have a copy of the results but she gave a reference of like .2 or 1 as "normal". I can ask for a copy when I go back tomorrow though.

ETA: Maybe that is for creatinine? It seems like that is the one with a similar range as noted above.
Last edited by Lmod738 on Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby AHBD » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:18 pm

Hi there, hopefully your guy pulls through ! Do you have pics of him ? If he's alert + healthy looking it doesn't seem like he'd be in kidney failure. Is this vet a true reptile vet ? We get a lot of wrong diagnoses + treatment here on the forums.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:33 pm

It is a true reptile vet. In fact, the office is that in Dr. T, Lone Star Vet from Nat Geo Wild. So my confidence in their ability is far greater than that of another office. The vet we're working with is a retired veterinary professor from Texas A&M.

ETA: She was in a bit of disbelief at the number too. She was not at all expecting to see a number that high.

Here are recent pics of my little guy, the most recent is the one of him eyeing the fresh bugs...
[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby AHBD » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:38 pm

I don't know, something doesn't seem right.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:43 pm

One thing she briefly mentioned was that they sometimes see this with over-supplementation. I've primarily been giving him calcium without D3 with each bug feeding (2xday), picked up some Repashy multivitamin that I started using on his greens a couple weeks ago, then I just got some Repashy Calcium Plus at a reptile show on Saturday and opted to feed just that going forward since it was an all in one.

Does any of that sound like over-supplementing? His urates weren't ever orange, which I've seen to watch for. I doubt he was overdosing on multivitamin on the greens because he rarely eats them, occasionally only a few bites. Greens are turnip or collard, btw.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:48 pm

Part of me is also wondering if he is just weirdly inbred or something and has an unknown genetic condition that ties the kidney and leg issues together. I just can't believe that I went in to confirm that his leg condition was genetic/untreatable/not MBD, and now we're looking at possible death due to kidney failure.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby AHBD » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:16 pm

Well that is quite a lot but don't think it would cause kidney failure this quickly. Calcium dusting is best done very lightly on one meal a day and multivit. 1-2 X a week at most. The all in one I would be more careful with, just 1-2 X a week and using calcium very lightly 2-3 X a week and using less of each as the dragon nears adulthood. Did he drink any water as he was growing ?
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:39 pm

Thanks. If he pulls through I will definitely back off supplementing. I was so concerned that the walk was due to MBD so I could've been overdoing the calcium.

He will drink a drip or two from his nose occasionally but mostly his water is with his greens because I'm afraid he could drown in a water dish with the way he walks and his inability to push himself up. So I mist his daily greens with water until they're sitting in a couple millimeters of water. That way he can kick it without me worrying that he will drown.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby claudiusx » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:42 pm

I agree, It's odd for sure.

Definitely post up the results when you get them. You paid for them, you're entitled to have them at the least! :wink:

Dont despair yet. They are tough creatures and a lot of times are strong fighters. You can get him back on track. How did his urates look with all that supplementation? I think it was a bit excessive but I doubt it would cause liver failure. Possible temporarily elevated levels but they should go down naturally.

Another thing to think about, is muscle trauma can cause super physiological liver values too. So if his leg condition has been causing him issues, it's possible that any muscle trauma from that also increased his values. Shoot, even in us humans, simply working out before a blood test can cause liver enzyme levels to pass the normal range.
The fact that his liver values are non-symptomatic, would lead me to assume that it's either a recent development, or it's not his true normal value.

Either way, I wouldn't put your chips in until you get a second blood test in a few weeks to see how his levels are trending.

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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Lmod738 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:45 pm

Also his bones were good in the xrays except in his hands and feet. They were a little light on the scan, which she thinks is possibly due to him not really using them. No breaks or rubbery bones though.
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Re: Juvenile Beardie in Kidney Failure

Postby Drache613 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 1:08 am

Hello,

If that is the uric acid level, 37, that would likely be 37mg/dl so that would be very high indeed.
Dehydration can cause high uric acid readings. Definitely post them up here when you are able
to get a copy of the results, I would love to take a look at them.
I agree, that doesn't sound like too excessive of supplementation. You could decrease the vitamins
to just 1-2 times weekly.
Which type/brand of UVB are you using?
So many are inbred which causes health & organ issues unfortunately. When is he coming home?
You can get some black cherry extract to start giving to him to help out with his levels, too.
Let us know how he is doing.

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