Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please help

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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby Claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:45 am

Do let us know when you get him setup in his new setup. It will help a lot like suggested.
I also second the recommendation of buying BSFL from symtom. They are great.

Just to reiterate what AHBD said, your guy really isn't getting any UV exposure how he is currently setup, so doing what AHBD suggested should help a lot. And once you get the bin, then you can work on getting the temp setup proper.

Good luck! Keep us updated! :mrgreen:

-Brandon
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby PathfinderMom91 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:26 pm

Update!!!

I set up Pathfinder’s new home. I also switched the uvb to the reptisun 10.0. I also adjusted the heating lamp so it’s now at 105. I went by the store where I bought him and asked them if there was anything else I can try to feed him since he isn’t eating crickets. The woman there said they sometimes give them wax worms as a treat. Should I try this? He also had a very weird poo today with blood.

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:14 pm

Better off trying silkworms than waxworms.

Waxworms are like crack for lizards, once they get a taste for them, they want nothing else.

Whereas silkworms have no downside nutritionally , infact are one of the best feeder insects you can give a lizard.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby PathfinderMom91 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:21 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:Better off trying silkworms than waxworms.

Waxworms are like crack for lizards, once they get a taste for them, they want nothing else.

Whereas silkworms have no downside nutritionally , infact are one of the best feeder insects you can give a lizard.


Could I give him silkworms as a staple?
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:24 pm

PathfinderMom91 wrote:Update!!!

I set up Pathfinder’s new home. I also switched the uvb to the reptisun 10.0. I also adjusted the heating lamp so it’s now at 105. I went by the store where I bought him and asked them if there was anything else I can try to feed him since he isn’t eating crickets. The woman there said they sometimes give them wax worms as a treat. Should I try this? He also had a very weird poo today with blood.

[Click image to enlarge]


I'd invest in taller tub , very big risk Pathfinder will leap out of that little tub as the hide/basking spot brings him temptingly close to the rim of the tub.
You need a rearing tub no less than 45cm tall. I suggest a 120L tub.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:27 pm

PathfinderMom91 wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:Better off trying silkworms than waxworms.

Waxworms are like crack for lizards, once they get a taste for them, they want nothing else.

Whereas silkworms have no downside nutritionally , infact are one of the best feeder insects you can give a lizard.


Could I give him silkworms as a staple?

Yes. They are great feeder insect.
Practically perfect
>>> soft bodied
>>> slow moving
>>> don't bite
>>> high Ca/P level ( mulberry leaves have Ca/P > 10 !!!)
>>> moist
>>> high protein
>>> not high in fat
>>> beneficial enzymes in them
>>> big enough to be very good meal size
>>> can harvest your own eggs and become self sufficient ( pretty easy to farm )
>>> if you have access to a mulberry tree , they become almost free to farm.

Only downsides
>> is you have to keep them in a clean warm environment ==> means removing their poos every day and you need to manage the humidity ( high humidity in the worm tub ==> mould ==> mould is lethal to silkworms )
>> expensive from petshops ( I've seen some petshops here demanding $1 per worm !!) .

I actually "farm" my own silkworms and have them in my skinks' and dragons' diets as a staple feeder insect nearly year round. My hatchlings get
silkworms
BSFL
crickets (gut loaded and dusted) as their staple feeder insect.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby Claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:39 pm

Hi there,

The setup looks much better. What is the distance now from uvb bulb to his basking site? Great that you upgraded to the reptisun. It's a great bulb.

The only concern I have really, is that the heat lamp is almost in the middle of the bin. You still want a good heat gradient for him to have some place to cool down at. What is the coolest spot in the bin reading?

It looks tall enough to me that he wouldn't be able to jump out. They really can't actually jump too high, it's more so if he was able to get his hands on the lip, he might be able to pull himself out. But it doesn't look like he could do that.

Silkworms would be a great feeder for him. They are a bit expensive and hard to find sometimes, but you can easily get silkworm eggs and hatch them yourself.
Other good options would be BSFL, butterworms, dubia roaches, and baby hornworms. You can also feed small mealworms and small superworms as an occasional addition to the diet. IMO, the more variety you can provide, the better! :)

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
Click here if you use a Sunblaster fixture - IMPORTANT
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby PathfinderMom91 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:08 pm

claudiusx wrote:Hi there,

The setup looks much better. What is the distance now from uvb bulb to his basking site? Great that you upgraded to the reptisun. It's a great bulb.

The only concern I have really, is that the heat lamp is almost in the middle of the bin. You still want a good heat gradient for him to have some place to cool down at. What is the coolest spot in the bin reading?

It looks tall enough to me that he wouldn't be able to jump out. They really can't actually jump too high, it's more so if he was able to get his hands on the lip, he might be able to pull himself out. But it doesn't look like he could do that.

Silkworms would be a great feeder for him. They are a bit expensive and hard to find sometimes, but you can easily get silkworm eggs and hatch them yourself.
Other good options would be BSFL, butterworms, dubia roaches, and baby hornworms. You can also feed small mealworms and small superworms as an occasional addition to the diet. IMO, the more variety you can provide, the better! :)

-Brandon


I don’t really know how I could fit the basking lamp and the uvb light and get a gradient. The distance from the uvb light is 8 1/2 inches. The coolest spot is reading 88.5. Unfortunately I can’t get Dubias since I live in Florida. When will he get his appetite back? I tried to feed him a waxworm since the lady at the store said they give it to them, but he had no interest. He hasn’t eaten in over a week.
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby kingofnobbys » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:11 pm

PathfinderMom91 wrote:
claudiusx wrote:Hi there,

The setup looks much better. What is the distance now from uvb bulb to his basking site? Great that you upgraded to the reptisun. It's a great bulb.

The only concern I have really, is that the heat lamp is almost in the middle of the bin. You still want a good heat gradient for him to have some place to cool down at. What is the coolest spot in the bin reading?

It looks tall enough to me that he wouldn't be able to jump out. They really can't actually jump too high, it's more so if he was able to get his hands on the lip, he might be able to pull himself out. But it doesn't look like he could do that.

Silkworms would be a great feeder for him. They are a bit expensive and hard to find sometimes, but you can easily get silkworm eggs and hatch them yourself.
Other good options would be BSFL, butterworms, dubia roaches, and baby hornworms. You can also feed small mealworms and small superworms as an occasional addition to the diet. IMO, the more variety you can provide, the better! :)

-Brandon


I don’t really know how I could fit the basking lamp and the uvb light and get a gradient. The distance from the uvb light is 8 1/2 inches. The coolest spot is reading 88.5. Unfortunately I can’t get Dubias since I live in Florida. When will he get his appetite back? I tried to feed him a waxworm since the lady at the store said they give it to them, but he had no interest. He hasn’t eaten in over a week.


I think you need to start handfeeding him , a week with no food is very serious and dangerous for such a young dragon.
I'd be force feeding this one , using either bsfl or crickets , and doing it by hand.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYVe79z5wEM for how.

Or take him to the vet and get them to get some food (Oxbow Carnivore Critical Care or VetaFarm HerpaBoost) into him using a cop needle and feeding syringe.
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby Claudiusx » Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:18 pm

I wouldn't be force feeding. I've had babies go much longer before eating food. It looks like hes being active and hes alert, his lack of eating isnt causing any issues right now. Give him some more time. You just made some adjustments to his setup that should help.
If he starts getting sleepy and weak, then force feeding might be necessary.

Force feeding should always be a last option imo. It is extremely stressful on any living creature to be forced to eat.

Just my 2 cents.

-Brandon
Follow along with all my beardies. Check out my thread here!: Claud's Crew
P.S. We have lots of pictures ;)
Click here if you use a Sunblaster fixture - IMPORTANT
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby PathfinderMom91 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:07 pm

claudiusx wrote:I wouldn't be force feeding. I've had babies go much longer before eating food. It looks like hes being active and hes alert, his lack of eating isnt causing any issues right now. Give him some more time. You just made some adjustments to his setup that should help.
If he starts getting sleepy and weak, then force feeding might be necessary.

Force feeding should always be a last option imo. It is extremely stressful on any living creature to be forced to eat.

Just my 2 cents.

-Brandon


Ahhh!!! Such different answers! I’ve also read that force feeding should be a last resort thing. I don’t know if he would be considered weak. He basks all day but when I pick him up he tries to squirm out of my hand and go onto my shirt. I just feel so bad that I’m eating every day and he isn’t. I can tell that he’s also lost weight since I first got him too.
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby AHBD » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:30 am

Hi again, I'm sorry I didn't get any notifications at all on this thread + missed out on these updates ! The bin is just right, good job ! Now he will get the good uvb rays + hopefully develop an appetite. Just hang the heat lamp a bit higher so it's not quite as hot. Offer water with a syringe and try some baby food chicken and squash [ organic, no salt ] with the syringe as well. You can also try something called reptaboost from the pet store. I doubt that he can jump out of there but if you're concerned, just put in some egg crating instead, it's much lower to the ground + babies like crawling on it. I think egg crating would be better for him right now or even a small low branch . He'll be closer to the ground where you drop the crickets.

Are you sure there was blood in the poo or just discoloration ? That is a concern + if it continues then you can have a fecal test done by an experienced vet, but for now give your baby some time to settle in.
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby PathfinderMom91 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:45 am

AHBD wrote:Hi again, I'm sorry I didn't get any notifications at all on this thread + missed out on these updates ! The bin is just right, good job ! Now he will get the good uvb rays + hopefully develop an appetite. Just hang the heat lamp a bit higher so it's not quite as hot. Offer water with a syringe and try some baby food chicken and squash [ organic, no salt ] with the syringe as well. You can also try something called reptaboost from the pet store. I doubt that he can jump out of there but if you're concerned, just put in some egg crating instead, it's much lower to the ground + babies like crawling on it. I think egg crating would be better for him right now or even a small low branch . He'll be closer to the ground where you drop the crickets.

Are you sure there was blood in the poo or just discoloration ? That is a concern + if it continues then you can have a fecal test done by an experienced vet, but for now give your baby some time to settle in.


Good morning!
I’m not really concerned about him escaping, the picture makes the bin look shorter than it is. I actually have some organic chicken baby food, I have an 11 month old. Can I give it to him with a syringe like the one that comes in baby medicines? I only have those kind.

He pooped what seemed to be like a piece of food with blood on it. Last night though he pooped again and it was mostly white. Not sure what that means?
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby AHBD » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:51 am

Yes you can use the syringe. :) Have you tried dropping a few jar-shaken crickets [ to make them slow + weak ] near him ? That's one advantage of having the egg crating as a basking area, the little crickets fall right in one of the indentations where the egg would be and are easy prey for your little guy. If the poo seems cleared up that's good, no telling what exactly caused the odd color.
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Re: Juvenile beardie refuses to eat, getting skinny. please

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:28 am

I'd definitely get the unusual color in the poo checked by a vet, if he's not been eating for a week he will have nothing left in his GIT so I'd expect he'll only be passing urates until he starts getting some food into his body.

Are you sure it was blood-stained poo and not orangy colored tinge in urates. This might be indication of problems with his renal system ==> kidneys are compromised ( he's in early stage organ failure - so careful with food , lots of small meals containing protein are the go else you risk renal overload ).
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
G.Dubia Gecko (F) hatchling : Godzilla
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