Questions about possible gout

So I think my 6-7 month old may have gout and the good reptile vet in the area cant get us in for almost a week. Monday morning one of his front feet was swollen I thought he may have got it hung up in his hammock but this morning his other front foot has swelling and one if his back knees and he seems very sore and relunct to move around.

Hes housed in a 40gal exoterra. basking spot is between 110 and 115 cool side averages around 80 with a cool down to 76 at night. He has a zoomed 10.0 t5 mounted insinde the tank calcium dusting feeders 3 times a week. He gets fed kale,mustard greens, dandelion greens and occasionally a spring mix daily along with superworms usually 2 a day, 3 or 4 waxworms a few times a week, calciworms a few a week and we go through about 60 crickets per week. About a a week and a half ago I got hornworms as a treat he got 2 a day for 5 days then refused them. The swelling started the next morning. We also do warm soaks a few times a week and take him out side to bask for 30mins 4 days a week. I went and got black cherry concentrate this morning just incase. What are your thoughts and is there anything else I can do in the mean time ?

He looks pretty young, how old is he?

Typically we dont see gout until the dragon is a bit older. And he really doesn't sound like he has a super high protein diet which would lead to gout.

You can give him the cherry extract it wont hurt, even if he doesnt actually have gout.

Besides just not really moving around, does he seem to be in pain? Can you touch the joints and move them without him getting upset?

A week straight of hornworms simply might have just caused a lot of water retention. That could be why you're noticing what appear to be swollen legs.

-Brandon

I am assuming hes about 6 months I got him end of July from Petsmart and he was definitely not a hatchling he was about 25grams when I got him now hes about 110g. And He is acting really unconfortable refusing to stand up on his legs and holding up the swollen ones. The swelling dosent really show up well in the pictures the back left and right front are the worst left front just slight around the wrist. When he does try to move hes pushing himself around on his belly. And on sunday night he was completely normal no swelling and running after his crickets.

Isn't that t5 abit close to his basking spot?

daveferns1":2ttph8zy said:

Isn't that t5 abit close to his basking spot?

Click to expand...

It should be OK since there are so many levels and areas away from the bulb. It provides a nice gradient to allow for choices. They're usually pretty good about self regulating to get what they need at a given time.

Aggiegirl711":2zxmlhfq said:

refusing to stand up on his legs and holding up the swollen ones.

Click to expand...

Is he doing this all the time or only when basking?

Could you get some bloodwork done at the vets?

-Brandon

The picture makes the bulb look very close but its about 8 to 10 inches from his basking spot and the closest spot is a little over 6 dead center on his bridge branch. And he was holding up or out the first leg to have swelling most of the time and was getting up on the other 3 just fine to move with an ovious limp on the swollen foot. This morning is when the other 2 poped up with swelling also and the reluctance to get up/ paddeling around on his belly ... He is also eating pretty well still not quite as interested in his veggies as normal but did eat some and gobbled up his bugs with no hesitation. And I'm hoping they will do blood work when we get in to see the vet next week.

Ok.

Definitely insist on the blood work. It should confirm or deny gout, or show if there is another reason for the swelling.

I still hesitate to call it gout since hes so young, but it's definitely a possibility.
You might want to try limiting the feeders a bit just for now if it is gout.
Have you tried any of the black cherry extract yet?

-Brandon

I will and I gave him some this afternoon he was not happy with me but we got it down. And I'm hoping its not. The fact his other 2 legs started swelling has me super worried though.

Hello,

I agree, he does need a blood test done if at all possible. Knowing those levels are very
important when trying to make a diagnosis. He is young, but, there has been an increase
of gout cases over the last few years unfortunately. I have seen a lot of youngsters develop
gout lately. A lot of it is poor genetics but some is due to improper diet, lighting & or the
supplementation.
The T5 light, it's hard to tell from the pictures but is it in a light fixture & mounted directly
overhead or is it mounted on the back wall of the tank?
The black cherry extract is helpful & definitely wont hurt if you do give it to him regardless of
whether or not he has gout or not.
What type of food do you gutload your crickets & superworms with?
What brand of vitamins & calcium do you give to him?

Tracie

The t5 is hanging directly in the center under the screen top. And I have been using flukers calcium powder with d3 its been open about 5 months I usually try and replace it every 6 months to keep it fresh. I have small day geckos also so have been using it for them before we got Buddy. I just got multivitamins from beardeddragon.co I think its just their brand it came in a silver pouch. The crickets get a high calcium ground cricket diet and his worms I just give his left over veggies at the end of the day and refill once they have finished them.

Also not sure if its the black cherry or just coincidence but he was moving around better today just back to a slight limp and the swelling seems to have gone down slightly.

That's great! Hopefully the black cherry extract is working then.

Do you know what is in your cricket chow? Or its composition? It might be best to just switch to feeding the crickets carrots and potatoes for now. Their diet might be too high in protein which would exacerbate the gout.

-Brandon

This is the info on the cricket food ... Do you think it could be to much ?

Fluker's High Calcium Cricket Diet Reptile Supplement, 11.5-oz jar
Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Grain Products, Plant Protein Products, Processed Grain By Products, Animal Protein Products, Forage Products, Cane Molasses, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Dl-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Sulfate.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 20.0% min
Crude Fat 5.0% min
Crude Fiber 9.0% max
Calcium (Ca) 8.00% min
Phosphorus 0.60% min
Salt 0.25% min
Salt 0.75% max

Yeah, I'd ditch it for now until you get any blood test results. If he has gout, you definitely don't want him eating a high protein diet. Or a diet of feeders who eat high protein diets.. :wink:

Stick with the veggies for a gutload for now

-Brandon

Hello,

I hope the black cherry helps out. Usually it helps pretty quickly. If he has gout, you should
definitely continue with the black cherry but he may also need some meds for short term, too.
The main problem with most of the commercialized gut load/feed for insects is that it is made
with genetically modified grains which will cause a lot of harm to organs. It is high protein but
that alone isn't the only reason of gout developing.
You can make a dry feed out of organic oatmeal, organic wheat germ, & organic bran. I have
also used an organic chicken laying mash for our insects which works well, also.
As suggested for now, you can just gut load with veggies for now.

Tracie